County Council - Wednesday 16 July 2025, 10:00am - Gloucestershire County Council Webcasting

County Council
Wednesday, 16th July 2025 at 10:00am

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Chair
Cllr Stephen Davies
Chair
Chair
Cllr David Willingham
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Public
Chair
Cllr Joe Harris
Chair
Cllr Stephen Davies
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Craig Horrocks
Chair
Chair
Cllr Sajid Patel
Chair
Chair
Public
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Public
Chair
Public
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Chair
Public
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Chair
Public
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Chair
Public
Cllr Martin Horwood
Chair
Public
Chair
Public
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Stephen Davies
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Public
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Public
Chair
Public
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Public
Chair
Public
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Chair
Public
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Chair
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Chair
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Chair
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Public
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Public
Chair
Chair
Public
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Chair
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Cllr Paul Hodgkinson
Chair
Public
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Chair
Public
Chair
Public
Chair
Public
Chair
Public
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Public
Chair
Cllr Ben Evans
Chair
Cllr Jeremy Hilton
Cllr Ben Evans
Chair
Cllr Beki Hoyland
Cllr Ben Evans
Chair
Cllr Chloe Turner
Cllr Ben Evans
Chair
Cllr Stephen Davies
Cllr Ben Evans
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Cllr Ben Evans
Chair
Cllr Chloe Turner
Chair
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Cllr Jason Preece
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Chair
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Chair
Cllr Linda Cohen
Chair
Cllr Linda Cohen
Cllr Rebecca Trimnell
Chair
Cllr Rebecca Trimnell
Chair
Cllr Paul Hodgkinson
Chair
Cllr Leigh Challis
Chair
Cllr Stephen Davies
Chair
Cllr Craig Horrocks
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr David Willingham
Chair
Cllr Richard Stanley
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Chair
Chair
Cllr Chloe Turner
Chair
Chair
Cllr Chloe Turner
Chair
Cllr Paul Hodgkinson
Chair
Cllr Tom Bradley
Chair
Cllr Chris McFarling
Chair
Cllr John Patient
Chair
Cllr John Patient
Chair
Cllr John Patient
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Mark Harris
Chair
Cllr Stephen Davies
Chair
Cllr Gary Luff
Cllr Beki Hoyland
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Julian Tooke
Chair
Cllr Joe Harris
Chair
Cllr Martin Horwood
Chair
Cllr David Willingham
Chair
Cllr Kate Usmar
Chair
Cllr Chloe Turner
Chair
Chair
Chair
Chair
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Cllr Chris Mayo
Chair
Cllr Richard Stanley
Chair
Cllr Richard Stanley
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Chair
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Richard Stanley
Chair
Cllr Richard Stanley
Chair
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Democratic Services
Cllr Ian Cameron
Cllr Piers Camp
Cllr Leigh Challis
Democratic Services
Cllr Cheryl Agg
Cllr Iain Dobie
Democratic Services
Chair
Democratic Services
Chair
Cllr Piers Camp
Chair
Cllr Piers Camp
Chair
Cllr Piers Camp
Chair
Cllr Ray Donaghue
Chair
Cllr Jeremy Hilton
Chair
Chair
Monitoring Officer
Cllr Jeremy Hilton
Chair
Cllr Jeremy Hilton
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Chair
Monitoring Officer
Chair
Monitoring Officer
Chair
Cllr Chloe Turner
Cllr Chloe Turner
Chair
Cllr Chloe Turner
Chair
Cllr Stephen Davies
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Jeremy Hilton
Chair
Cllr Sajid Patel
Chair
Cllr Sajid Patel
Chair
Cllr Sajid Patel
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Piers Camp
Chair
Democratic Services
Chair
Democratic Services
Chair
Cllr Michael Rees
Chair
Cllr Michael Rees
Cllr David Willingham
Cllr Michael Rees
Cllr David Willingham
Chair
Monitoring Officer
Chair
Cllr Vernon Gray
Chair
Cllr Joe Harris
Chair
Chair
Cllr Beki Hoyland
Chair
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Chair
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Cllr Suzanne Williams
Cllr Jeremy Hilton
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Mark Howard
Chair
Cllr David Willingham
Chair
Cllr Stewart Dove
Chair
Cllr Dom Morris
Chair
Cllr Mark Howard
Chair
Cllr John Patient
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Cllr Gill Moseley
Chair
Cllr Gill Moseley
Cllr Sajid Patel
Chair
Cllr Stephen Davies
Chair
Cllr Alex Hegenbarth
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Chair
Cllr Sarah Hands
Chair
Cllr Joe Harris
Chair
Cllr Joe Harris
Chair
Cllr Joe Harris
Chair
Cllr Michael Rees
Chair
Cllr Michael Rees
Chair
Cllr Michael Rees
Chair
Democratic Services
Chair
Democratic Services
Chair
Democratic Services
Monitoring Officer
Chair
Chair
Chair
Webcast Finished
Chair
Cllr Chris Mayo
Cllr Vernon Smith
Cllr Chris Mayo
Cllr Joe Harris
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Cllr Ben Evans
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Cllr Joe Harris
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Cllr Martin Horwood
Chair
Cllr Martin Horwood
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Cllr Kate Usmar
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Cllr Colin Hay
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Cllr Colin Hay
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Cllr Joe Harris
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Cllr Martin Horwood
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Piers Camp
Cllr Colin Hay
Cllr Piers Camp
Chair
Cllr Piers Camp
Chair
Cllr Piers Camp
Cllr Ben Evans
Chair
Cllr Leigh Challis
Chair
Cllr Vernon Gray
Cllr Colin Hay
Chair
Cllr Vernon Gray
Chair
Cllr Stuart Graham
Chair
Cllr Stuart Graham
Chair
Cllr Colin Hay
Chair
Cllr Colin Hay
Chair
Cllr Michael Rees
Cllr Martin Horwood
Cllr Michael Rees
Chair
Cllr Ray Donaghue
Cllr Paul Hodgkinson
Chair
Cllr Ray Donaghue
Cllr Suzanne Williams
Cllr Richard Stanley
Cllr Suzanne Williams
Cllr Roger Whyborn
Chair
Cllr Ray Donaghue
Chair
Cllr Ray Donaghue
Cllr Linda Cohen
Chair
Cllr Chris Mayo
Chair
Cllr Chris Mayo
Cllr Paul Hodgkinson
Cllr Chris Mayo
Chair
Cllr Chris Mayo
Chair
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Cllr Paul Hodgkinson
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Chair
Cllr Stephen Davies
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Daryl Corps
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Stephen Davies
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Ian Watson
Chair
Cllr Colin Hay
Chair
Cllr Alastair Chambers
Cllr Colin Hay
Chair
Cllr Beki Hoyland
Cllr Colin Hay
Chair
Cllr David Willingham
Cllr Colin Hay
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Stuart Graham
Chair
Cllr Stuart Graham
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Democratic Services
Chair
Cllr Piers Camp
Chair
Cllr Colin Hay
Chair
Cllr Colin Hay
Chair
Cllr Vernon Gray
Cllr Colin Hay
Chair
Cllr Richard Stanley
Chair
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Cllr Angie Boyes
Cllr Sarah Hands
Chair
Cllr Vernon Gray
Cllr Michael Rees
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Lisa Spivey
Chair
Cllr Jeremy Hilton
Chair
Chair
Cllr Jeremy Hilton
Cllr Alex Hegenbarth
Chair
Cllr Alex Hegenbarth
Chair
Cllr Vernon Smith
Chair
Democratic Services
Chair
Democratic Services
Chair
Webcast Finished

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Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.

Chair - 0:00:24

Good morning, everyone.

It's 10 o 'clock, so we'll make a start.

Welcome to all councillors and guests today to full council on Wednesday the 16th of July.

Maybe fine wisdom to carry out our duties, humanity to listen to all, the courage to do what is right and the generosity to treat each other with respect.

Thank you very much.

So we'll move forward.

Apologies, I have apologies from Councillor Richard Dean, Councillor Gary Leff,

Councillor Natalie Rothwell -Waugh and Councillor Cheryl Ag.

Are there any further apologies?

Councillor David?

Cllr Stephen Davies - 0:01:10

Don Morris will be here, he's just running late.

Thank you.

Chair - 0:01:13

Any further? No.

Chair - 0:01:18

Minutes of the last meeting.

Is everybody happy with those minutes?

If so, I will sign them.

Okay, I take it that everybody is happy with those.

Bear with me a moment and I will sign the minutes.

Thank you.

Cllr David Willingham - 0:01:42

Chair - 0:01:51

Item 3, declaration of interest.

There is a sheet at the back of the room to note down any interest.

So if you haven't done that and you've got any interest, please do it now.

Item 4, announcements.

Quite a few announcements today.

King's award.

Congratulations to all those who were on the honours list for the King's birthday.

The list has been circulated to all members so I'm not going to go through it.

Thank you.

Reminder of following this meeting at 1 .15 there's the extraordinary meeting for non -returning councillors

and confirm the honorary alderman and older women.

Older, older women.

No, and anyway, remember that that's on

and we'll be pleased to greet all those ex -counsellors

later in the day.

Gloucestershire Achievers Award.

Congratulations to all those who were recognised

as part of the Gloucestershire Achievers Award

on the 9th of July.

The GCC awards recognise and celebrate colleagues who live our values and behaviours every day

in their work.

And I believe the leader would like to speak on that.

Thank you.

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:03:23

Yes, thank you, Chair.

And I just wanted to use this opportunity to say what a wonderful afternoon this was

on the 9th of July.

I think it's really important that we celebrate our fantastic staff because as

we know this is an organisation for people, about people and by people and

our people, our staff really are fabulous and I have to say that it was a really

enlightening afternoon for me to hear about the brilliant work that's going on

across the organisation and what I felt particularly pleased to see was that

those that were celebrated were individuals as well as teams and I think

that really really shows the strength of this organisation. There was a particular

highlight on hoarding, the hoarding team seemed to have done very well, work in

children's, in adults, across all of our really important services and I think

one of the highlights really was when one of the winners was announced and it

was all a surprise for those, it was like the Oscars and nobody knew who was

going to win, the nominees were up on the screen and there was at one point

there was a real whoop from one of the colleagues of the person who'd won and I

think that really says everything so I just like to say Joe and everybody

thank you for inviting me to that it was a brilliant afternoon and a special

mention to Noor Al Koke who won the most achieved person in the organisation a

real amazing ambassador for the organisation a real leader I think

within the organisation and to see the amount of respect and real love actually

that there seemed to be for her was really palpable so thank you and if I

just might add another quick announcement and that's just to welcome

the, I think we've got quite a few work experience people here with us today and

I just wanted to welcome them because I think it's really really important that

as an organisation that we can show what we do and to welcome in younger

generations who might be inspired by everything that they see today so

everybody best behaviour please. Thank you very much chair.

Chair - 0:05:26

Thank you leader. Moving on item D is the scrutiny review. Just to remind councillors

that the review is being arranged and conducted by the centre for governance and scrutiny.

It's starting with a survey which will run from today until the end of August. Interviews

and discussion sessions will be held in September.

More details will follow very soon.

Members post, just to remind councillors

that members posts can now be collected

from the Democratic Services offices.

For those people who were here last time,

they were downstairs next to the post room

and I think they were forgotten at times

so they will be easier for members to pick up.

Members Matters, I remind members that Members Matters is the first place to find your information

and the email goes out every Wednesday with the latest information and you'll also find recordings of sessions that have taken place on there

if you wish to view them, if you can't have made the sessions.

Voting, also to remind new members that voting will be done by a raise of hands for, against or abstain.

And then some sad news. Some of us will remember former Councillor Brian Oostenhuis who sadly passed away on Sunday.

Brian served the council for 14 years from 2005 to 2009 and again from 2011 to 2021.

Brian was a former leader, group leader of the Labour group, chair of scrutiny and audit.

And I believe ex -councillor John Bloxham, who is here this morning, would like to say a few words.

John.

Public - 0:07:42

Thank you.

It's with sadness that we heard of the death of Brian Oosterhausen who passed away peacefully

in his sleep on Sunday the 13th of July at Resthaven Care Home at the age of 87.

Brian was a lovely, warm and kind man and his passing will be mourned by many whose lives he touched, including his former colleagues and constituents.

He had led a truly fascinating life, standing for peace, freedom and justice.

I was proud to have continued his work for the community when I succeeded Brian in 2021.

And I thank you, Chair, for the opportunity to say a few words and pay tribute to his

service.

As you say, he represented the Robborough Division for a decade and prior to that also

represented the Stroud East Division.

He also served as a member of Robborough Parish Council.

Born in 1938 in South Africa, Brian had a religious conversion in his late teens, seeing

apartheid for what it was.

His eldest daughter, Janet, said he broke with his upbringing

by not inflicting violence and fear

on his children or his students.

He came to London in 1962 as a mature student

to take a divinity degree at King's College,

where he and Desmond Tutu were the only South Africans

on the course.

They spent much time together, became close friends,

kept in touch after graduation in 1965,

and met again as recently as 2015.

Brian taught for many years locally.

He lived in Robborough with his wife Carol,

with whom he raised a family,

and he was also an exemplary public servant

and community leader.

And as we've heard, that included a long period of service

for this council.

Carol says of Brian,

He lived a good, useful life and he worked hard for his constituents as a parish and county councillor

for political changes that he believed in and for all his students at Archway School.

All of this work was informed by his strong faith and his sense of justice

begun in his early years fighting against apartheid.

To mention a few,

Brian was active as a member of Amnesty International, a governor of Archway School,

chair of governors at Gastro's primary school,

a trustee of Stroud Women's Refuge and Stroud District,

together with refugees.

He was an active member of the congregation of Robra Tabernacle

and he curated and led the Stroud Holocaust Memorial event.

It was thanks to Brian that one former pupil

learned the poem Leisure by William Henry Davis

with its famous line, what is it, what is this life, it full of care if we have no time

to stand and stare. The pupil recalls, I got to know this through my housemaster. During

a house detention, I was an hour late as I sat in a field watching young badgers playing

in the field. Mr. Oosterhausen, my housemaster, made me learn the poem during my hours'

detention, possibly the coolest teacher we had in the school, and certainly a big influence

on my life.

Many have spoken in the last few days of how Brian was always keen to be involved with

a ready smile.

He brought warmth, energy, and joy to his role within the community.

He had many roles, and he touched the lives of so many of his former pupils, constituents,

and countless people within the community.

and he also had time to take up local issues.

In Carol's words, but most of all,

he lived to make his family happy

and was deeply loved by all his grandchildren,

great -grandchildren, sons -in -law,

and of course by Carol herself.

In the last few years, as many of us are aware,

Brian had been living with dementia.

For the last two and a half years,

he had received compassionate, diligent,

and expert care at Resthaven to whom the family have given their thanks.

Brian spread some of his love in our little part of the world and he made a difference

to people's lives. His was a life well lived, full of love to

the end and God knows don't we all need more of that in the world today.

May he rest in peace. The funeral for Brian will be held on Tuesday

the 29th of July at 11 a .m. in Robber Tabernacle.

I'll be here later on in the day.

If anybody wants contact information

and wants to get in touch with the family,

I'm happy to provide that to you later on.

Thank you.

Chair - 0:12:48

Thank you very much, sorry.

Thank you very much, John.

Very moving, thank you.

Would any, Joe.

Cllr Joe Harris - 0:12:59

Thank you. I've been asked to respond on behalf of the Liberal Democrat group. What a beautiful

tribute there from John and I think he summed up very eloquently, perfectly the sort of man that

Brian was. He was an incredibly caring and kind man and you know I experienced that firsthand at

the age of 20 when I was first elected to this place, he was one of the first people

to come up to me, congratulate me and just generally put a bit of an arm round in a chamber

which it's fair to say can be quite robust at times.

So right from the off he demonstrated what a kind person he was and actually he demonstrated

the teacher in him, he was a teacher for many years at Archway School and I think for me

that sent a very clear signal right from the off, the kind of man that he was.

I have to say as well I talked to him quite often about his roots. He had an

amazing storey I think. I think John sort of referenced it, you know, going to

university with Desmond Tutu. It's quite, it's quite unique isn't it? It is, it was

amazing and hearing some of the storeys from Brian about Desmond Tutu and the

role he played and I think actually there's quite an unfair stereotype

sometimes isn't there about white South Africans and I think if I may say I

think Brian totally smashed those stereotypes to pieces he was such a kind

gentle caring and loving man and you know he had a passion for tackling

social injustice I think that was absolutely he was I think on his

Facebook I seen him described as a Christian socialist and you know that

was evident in the way he operated in the way he dealt with people and his

contributions indeed to to this chamber. So Brian will be missed and I think the

greatest tribute I can pay ultimately is the you know just a reference to his

Facebook page. The comments there from his friends, from his family, from former

students that he taught and the tributes on some of the Facebook pages locally

I've seen. You know they're testament to the man he was, a huge part of the local

community in Robborough for many years, somebody who will be sorely missed and

somebody that I think all of us in this chamber should aspire to be like in our

deliberations with the public, with our families, with our friends and more

generally in life. So on behalf of the Liberal Democrat Group we're very sorry

to hear about the loss of Brian and our thoughts are with Carol and his wider

Chair - 0:15:32

family. Thank you. Thank you Joe. Kate for Stephen Davis. Thank you. Thank you

Cllr Stephen Davies - 0:15:38

in my first time in this on this council I overlapped with Brian and when I heard

the news that he passed away I had two thoughts the first was that my memory of

him is beyond politics it isn't about the party that he represented it is the

people he represented and I think it then there's a lesson for us that may

echo later in the day he was motivated by his convictions and beliefs rather

than the game of politics which we sometimes play and I think that is how

he should be remembered.

Again, our thoughts are with his family.

Thank you.

Thank you, Stephen.

Chair - 0:16:12

Councillor Vernon Smith.

Thank you, Chair.

Cllr Vernon Smith - 0:16:17

I'd just like to fully endorse what John and Joe

and Stephen have just said.

To me, as a new councillor, I remember,

he was always a perfect gentleman

and always very friendly.

He was great to talk to.

I'm so sad.

My thoughts, contaminants are scared to his family.

Thank you.

Chair - 0:16:40

Yes, Councillor Horwicks.

Cllr Craig Horrocks - 0:16:46

Thank you. Unfortunately, unlike the others who have spoken, I never had the opportunity to get to know John, Brian.

And thank you John for your eulogy and explanation of what his life was all about.

However, since I've been in Robborough and talking to residents from a whole range of

different spaces, Brian was remembered with great affection and great admiration by pretty

much everybody I've spoken to.

As a warm, enthusiastic man, resolute in the face of justice and completely dedicated to

his community.

A few weeks ago, I attended a little lunch event at Robborough Tabernacle, which was

of Brian's heart, where a group of older residents

were chatting and learning who I was, one woman said,

if you're half as good as Brian was, you'll do all right.

And he and Carol have been the centre of the community

in Roberta for many years, and we send our thoughts to her

and the family of this difficult part time.

So certainly in Roberta, Brian will be missed,

but he won't be forgotten.

Thank you.

Chair - 0:17:54

Thank you all for those kind words of Brian.

He travelled with me on most days when we came into meetings

and I have really fond memories of Brian and our thoughts are with Carol

who I'm sure will be watching today on YouTube.

So I think it would be right to do a minute's silence now if you could please.

Thank you.

Chair - 0:19:25

Also over the last month, during the last month, I think we need to pass on our condolences

due to a family, the Nalabos, that lost their life, lost a family that lost their life in

the Air India crash. I know Councillor Sajid Patel knew them well and would like to say

Cllr Sajid Patel - 0:20:04

a few words. Thank you Mr Chairman. The tragedy of flight 171 on 12 June when 260 people lost

including 52 British citizens.

Four of those passengers on board, three of those passengers,

excuse me, were the Nanabau family from my ward in Gloucester.

They lived literally around the corner from me and I used

to see them very often and most of us would remember exactly

where they were, what they were doing on that day, I certainly do.

And on that particular day, hearts were broken, dreams were shattered,

and pure devastation really for an Annabar family, for my community,

the people of Gloucester, and for all the other families

who lost their loved ones right across the world on the 12th of June.

People I've been speaking to in the city, at the local schools,

at the community centres.

Nobody has a bad word to say about Akil, his wife, Hannah,

or their four -year -old daughter, Sara.

They were kind, caring, compassionate, hardworking people.

They contributed to my community, to local sports clubs, to the schools.

They gave it their time volunteering and they will be a big loss to our city and certainly

to my community, absolutely heartbreaking,

heartbreaking what we saw and what's happened.

The daughter of four, was only four years old.

We've seen a lot of images of different families

who had photographs taken pre -flight and those

who lost their lives, absolutely tragedy, tragic.

Their daughter, she was absolutely a ray of sunshine.

She was absolutely beautiful.

and the family were as well. They were really good souls.

And, sorry, just leave it at that. May they rest in peace and may God give family,

may God give their family and friends the strength to continue the legacy that they've left behind.

And may God also give patience to all the families and friends of all the other people who lost their lives

on that day on 12th of June.

Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak.

Thank you.

Chair - 0:23:05

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Patel.

I think it would be respectful of us all

to stand for a minute's silence in respect.

Thank you.

Chair - 0:24:29

Thank you, members and guests.

Item 5, public questions.

We have 30 minutes for this.

We have 49 questions.

questions. Our first question is from Wendy Flynn. Is Wendy here? No. Okay. So the third

question is from Barbara Lawrence. Is Barbara here? No. Thank you, Joe. Keep shaking. Question

Question 5, Andrew Miller. No, thank you. Question 10 is David. David Redwell.

So yeah, I do have a follow -up question on this one.

Public - 0:25:42

I was surprised to see this survey online about the future of the county and the unitary government,

but I'm not aware of any publicity or newspaper articles or any publicity around this in view of the fact

the government's published the devolution white paper, the government's going to move ahead with devolution of this county into a unitary or two unitary authorities pretty quickly.

and the people of Gloucestershire seem to be being left out of the discussion.

Can we do more please to publicise in the media?

Gloucester City Council seem to have a very fast publicity machine that's telling the

world about a greater Gloucester which most of us think will never fly.

But we hear very little from the Unitary Council, which is probably going to be this council,

about the future organisation.

And we are in a bidding war and we're in a financial war to make sure the voice of Gloucestershire

is heard in central government, in UK government and the south -west region.

And we're not in a party political parish council battle.

Thank you.

Thank you, David.

Thank you, Mr Redjaw.

In fact, that was noted under Roger Wybourn but it's a mistake which should be in fact

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:26:59

directed to me because it's my portfolio.

So thank you.

and I thank you for your passion in fighting for Gloucestershire on the wider scale and

I absolutely endorse everything that you have said about really making sure that Gloucestershire

is on that map and that government know where we are.

So just to your particular question about promoting this survey, there's been quite

a lot in the media about this and I just want to take this opportunity as we've asked it

to pick up on what this is.

I'm really pleased to say that all seven councils in Gloucestershire are now working collectively

on the three options that were put to government on the 21st of March.

So that is for a one unit tray, a two unit tray along an east -west split,

and the third option for the Greater Gloucester City Council and other unit trays.

So I'm pleased to say that we're all working on that because we know that ultimately this is not

unfortunately going to be a decision which is made in Gloucestershire.

It is a decision which will be made by ministers in Westminster.

So all of the leaders of the seven councils in Gloucestershire along with the chief execs and the wider

officer group

In our councils are already working hard to make sure that the proposals that we put forward for the November date are all

implementable and part of that as part of that work we've been asked to

Engage with our communities and that again is something that we're doing through

ourselves GCC and we're pushing that out as wide and far as we can and but also

through the districts and through also the town association of town of parish

councils and members I would ask for you to do that as well so as you are out and

about in your communities and your parishes please make sure that you are

pushing that message forward once that has happened there will then be a full

government consultation so the government consultation will happen

after the proposals go in on the 28th of November and that is when the people of

Gloucestershire residents stakeholders etc will have a chance to give full

comments on each of the proposals put forward and I would draw people's

attention to that consultation which is happening right now in Surrey and if you

look that up you can see exactly the type of questions that are being asked

but we will always be fighting for Gloucestershire I'm sure that everybody

here I know I'm working I've got a couple of the district leaders here

Chloe Turner, Richard Stanley, Jeremy Hilton are already, we are all working really, really

collectively and very, very strongly to make sure that Gloucestershire is championed in

any local government reorganisation and further devolution deals.

Chair - 0:29:30

Thank you, Lida. David, do you have a supplementary for question 11?

Public - 0:29:39

I suppose it's just to ask Roger how he intends to go forward with the now very good working

relationship with the south of the county and so for sure council and the West of England

meal combined authority mayor having good way

Chair - 0:29:52

Public - 0:29:54

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:29:58

Thank you chair, um, you know quite right that in

Obviously we do have

vastly improved relationships over the centre

vastly improved relationships with

and the

combined authority on transport and on the issues which you

raise.

So a lot of the question was about rail.

We work through Western Gateway and we lobby, we don't actually

run rail as you know, but there are good prospects for improving

local services

So yeah, we will continue to work as closely as our neighbours want to and we're encouraged by the current situation

Chair - 0:30:49

Thank you. Thank you

question 12

Public - 0:30:58

Barbara wouldn't forgive me if I didn't ask a question

but

So what an underage

mayor combined authority and the mayor Helen Goodwin and South Gloucester

County Council. Do we have a long term future plan yet for this corridor Roger

or is the one being worked on for next April when this bus contract for Y8

will come to an end? Well I think the true answer to your question is that in

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:31:32

terms of that part of the world and connexions from Wotton Ender Edge

going southwards and indeed other other towns near to the boundary we are quite

a small player so we have made offers which are still on the table in terms of

funding but there is limit to what we can do because nearly all of the mileage

is outside of the county.

So we certainly welcome the

improvement in attitude and the willingness

to work together from Weka.

We've always had good relations with South Gloucestershire

on this, so I would anticipate that things will get better

and we'll certainly be fighting for improvements.

But it would be wrong to think that we're driving this or that it's our strategy because

Chair - 0:32:34

we've got about three miles of the route and they've got about 20 something. Thank you.

Thank you. Question 13.

Public - 0:32:42

Well yeah, I mean, AUSCORT's a huge successful storey in the south -west region for coaches.

The Charleton UCC Centre of National Express, it's very much the centre of a lot of National Express again, AUSCORT.

So my question there I know now from last night where all the busses are going in Cheltenham

So there will be a lot more busses into our school. But do we have an opening date yet for the

Sorry, that was probably transfer forum last night with the County Council in this building in this room

Do we know where we're going with the cafe to have an opening date yet for the cafe?

I don't have an opening date for the cafe, but I know that the

tendering arrangements have changed and are simpler so I would anticipate that

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:33:29

Chair - 0:33:30

it won't be very long I would certainly hope it was this year thank you thank

you question 13 no question 14 Dave Roberts no thank you question 15 Tim

Thank you

Public - 0:33:56

Good morning chairman the council

Thank You cancer Horwood for your reply

Do you share any sense of irony this morning that as a member of the Cheltenham Borough Council that took the precipitant decision to close

The valuable swims and roads like you're here today in a different role

But on the serious point and I think everybody in chart would like to see that it reopened as it is missed

Could he say how long he thinks the review that he and Shelton were undertaking will be?

And could he encourage his colleagues in shelter ensure that the actual land there remained intact?

so it could be reopened if that is the

recommendation of the review at the end of the process

Cllr Martin Horwood - 0:34:38

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Tim, for your question.

It's very good to see you in the Chamber again and still active in public life.

Clearly, the review that you asked about is going to take some time.

I have asked officers to scope this and we have not yet got a timeline for that, I'm

afraid.

But he makes a really important point that we shouldn't, on either side, hopefully on

our side or on the owner of the site, CBC's side,

take decisions which preempt any other future use.

So that point has been made in the discussions

that we have already started to initiate

with Cheltenham Borough Council.

And I would like to say, I think,

as on local government reorganisation,

there is now a new spirit of cooperation

between ourselves and the district councils,

because there are quite a lot of issues.

The same kind of issues that face Cheltenham

That's Winden Road. I'm discovering that we face a loss across a lot of our household recycling centres run by the county, too

So there are there are big issues and big financial challenges for this council as well

There are also cross -border issues if you want to call it that in the south and the north of the county where people

Finding it difficult to access the closest household recycling centres just because they happen to be in another

Council's jurisdiction, so he'll understand that this review is going to be a little complex

It is going to take a little time, but we want to get the best outcome both for the environment and for the council taxpayer

Thank you

Chair - 0:36:09

Question 16 Kate Arnold. No. Thank you

Question 17 Steven Phil field

Thank you

So we go on to question 19 David. Did you have a further question?

supplementary. Thank you.

Public - 0:36:35

No, nothing on 19, I do on 20.

You're right, thank you.

Public - 0:36:42

Chair - 0:36:42

So it's no secret that if you want money in South West England, which this region, this council is part of, it's not the West Midlands,

That we need a mural combined authority

Government have made it very very clear in letters sent to various authorities including Cornwall that they have to have a mural combined authority

I don't see a lot of progresses yet

with the rest of the southwest to mapping

Gloucestershire either into the West of England mural combined authority with the rest of the county of Gloucestershire and Bristol or

Or mapping it into Wessex which is now moving forward with Dorset bombers bull in Christchurch and possibly Swindon

I don't particularly think the government's very keen on us going to the West Midlands and residents are only but ask that question

So I just really wants a new progress it's gained something it's not being properly debated in the county

Transport campaign groups are probably much more ahead of the curve than the County Council is

because we know that busses, rail services move towards regionalisation.

Roger's mentioned this with the Metro West, which funds local train services in Bristol,

to Gloucester and Cheltenham and Worcester.

That's funded by the Mayor for £35 million,

which we're very grateful for, a new station at Charfield for Wootton,

all which happening on Gloucestershire's doorstep.

But franchising of busses and combined authorities,

So what progress is really being made on that discussion?

Certainly, I don't think residents of Cheltenham are very interested in joining up with Birmingham, Hereford or Worcester

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:38:21

Well, thank you David and again, thank you for your interest in this is really really important and naturally your point to that

Is one that we take very very seriously here

and in fact since I became the leader of the council has been really come into sharp focus that prior and to the

to the white paper being published in December of last year there was really

no reaching out amongst this council to other potential partners although parts

of the devolution had been on the agenda for a very very long time. So to your

exact question we are indeed taking this very seriously we recognise that this

has to happen at pace otherwise we will get left behind. So in fact yesterday the

Chief Exec and I met with Helen Goodwin, the Mayor of Weka, to begin

discussing and progressing that potential devolution partner. We will

also in the coming weeks and months be meeting with both our

counterparts in Herefordshire and Worcestershire and also in Oxfordshire.

Although I think you know you're absolutely right that we are in the

be our most natural partner, whether that be for economic reasons, for transport reasons

and indeed for our health footprint. And recently the integrated care board clustering yet again

put us in with Bath, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire. So that sort of footprint

already is being established. But just to reassure you, we are taking this very, very

seriously and are making great progress on that and we want to ensure that Gloucestershire

is not left behind. Thank you.

Chair - 0:40:02

Thank you

Cllr Stephen Davies - 0:40:07

I'd like I'd like to give the leader the opportunity to correct something

She just said there were meetings when I was leader with Oxfordshire

Bristol South Gloucestershire

Herefordshire

Amongst others we didn't order weka because they're in middle of an election like we were I'd like to give her the opportunity to correct

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:40:23

That mistake

What's the point of order?

Although I'm happy to answer that.

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:40:27

Chair - 0:40:27

I think for clarification, I said

prior to the devolution bill being white paper being

published in December.

So I didn't say that after that that hadn't happened.

I said prior to that.

I think we could cheque the records on that.

Thank you.

Chair - 0:40:42

David, which is your next question, please?

Supplementary.

Yeah, on carrying on with the devolution team,

Public - 0:40:55

I mean a number of us don't believe that greater cross is ever going to fly but they can carry on it

City Hall carrying on that view

So in line with the work that council Hay is doing in Cheltenham

What work is going on in the county to follow Somerset and Dorset?

I'll talk about the West Country Somerset and Dorset's

moves to set up

town and city councils in the unparished parts of Gloucestershire.

That is very important as we move forward.

Again, totally agree with you David and thank you for bringing that up.

And I just want to give you some reassurance that, like I've said in both my written response

and already in this meeting, we are all seven councils working really, really closely together

because we know that the decision will be made by ministers and so whatever happens will have

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:41:48

to be implementable and deliverable for Gloucestershire and I think you know

your point about town of Irish councils and has come up repeatedly we are

actively working on that they are included in one of our work streams that

work stream being led by Siobhan Farmer and Alistair Cunningham in Tewksbury

Borough Council so like say there's a great integration between all of the

seven councils and the work that they're doing and we've recognised that and I

that there were several councillors, staff, officers

at the Gloucestershire Association

of Town and Parish Council AGM on Saturday.

We are inviting them in and as part of the modelling

that we're doing moving forward,

we've looked at how these neighbourhood models will work

and then what the role of the Town and Parish Councils

is within that.

I would just like to point out

that we are going to be constrained

by what government are allowing us to do.

So they've been making it clear

that what they don't want to see is the town and parish councils are replacing district

councils within this process. So ensuring that we get that representation but that we

are adhering to the letter of the law is going to be a challenge but one that we are absolutely

mindful of because we know that what we want to do is make sure that decision making is

really in the heart of our communities. They're the people that know best about what is good

for their area so that is a really important consideration.

Public - 0:43:05

Chair - 0:43:06

David, what question do you want to supplement you for next, please?

Question 23.

Thank you.

Public - 0:43:17

It's no secret Gloucester is one of the smallest police forces in the country.

It split away from the Gloucester constabulary when Eben and Somerset took over the southern

part of the county's force.

It's been tried and discussed about tripartite policing with Wilkshire and Eben and Somerset.

As part of local government reorganisation, what work is happening with the county through

the police and crime panel and the commissioners to review the policing of Gloucestershire?

Bearing in mind we've now got rid of the horses, there's far less police on the streets and

it needs to merge Devon and Cornwall with Dorset.

This is again government thinking in regional government and we ask what work is happening

there as well.

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:43:58

Yeah, again, very important point, I think more generally, not just as part of a local

government reorganisation, but in general, I know that we as councillors across this

chamber have concerns around the number of police that we have and, you know, we've had

questions about the getting rid of some of our PCSOs. It's really, really important,

especially in rural areas, where we really rely on that community policing and also in

our urban areas to be fair. So I think that this however is really not, whilst

we are of course talking to our partners in the police in fact I'm going to meet

the Chief Constable on Friday this week and so we're constantly in dialogue as

far as the local government reorganisation agenda is concerned and

that is more really for the Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner to

think about their footprint although we are of course considering it and

speaking to them.

Chair - 0:44:51

David, do you have a supplementary to 24?

Public - 0:44:56

Just very briefly to understand, having now looked around Stroud Bus Station, the railway

station, the links and the shopping centre, I just really want to be assured that all

the disability and equality wayfinding, access to busses and towards the railway station,

which hopefully have a lift bridge as well,

are being thought through in this project.

It's quite concerning at the moment.

The way finding is very poor,

it finishes in the Valley Shopping Centre

between the bus and rail station.

And there does need to be more work on detail

for disabled access to the busses

at the rebuilt bus station.

Roger.

Public - 0:45:39

Chair - 0:45:39

I don't know the details of that situation,

so I will take that question away.

Obviously is very important that there is good

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:45:48

access for all

between the

Station the rail station and the wider

Town of Strad so I'll take that one away

Chair - 0:46:00

Supplementing to 25 I

Think the taxi ranks being built so there's not an issue there

Public - 0:46:11

26 do we have any dates where we might be able to have interchange information at the

Transport hub for busses and trains. It's been switched off now for over 12 14 months

There was a board in there which gave the bell departures

So any news on with that might come back?

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:46:39

Just clarify the question you're talking about at our transport

Real -time information about trains

No, it's Gloucester

Yeah, there was that we used to have a boarding that gave all train departures on the wall behind that's been switched out for about

well

again

the

The management of the transport hub is responsibility of the City Council.

Obviously the County Council provides the real -time information.

Officers are certainly very much aware of that problem and are working on it.

And they will continue to work on it until we get a solution.

But it does take two to tango on this.

Chair - 0:47:27

Thank you.

Just to remind you, we've got 12 minutes left, so if you did have any...

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:47:33

Chair - 0:47:34

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:47:35

...a little more because we had a meeting last night where a lot of this was answered, really.

But the only other one on this particular section, question 27,

Chair - 0:47:44

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:47:45

I am somewhat concerned with the pastures with reduced mobility,

that the busses between Gloucester and Cheltenham, which are a success storey,

they carry a lot more pastures than they did when they were dumped on the streets.

At night, that area around Tesco's is not safe, there's no CCTV, and quite frankly,

departing all the Gloucester, Chartland and Mainline busses from the bus station is a much

more sensible proposition from passengers.

There's a pity this wasn't debated last night, Roger.

We welcome the bus stops back outside Tesco, but perhaps they can be used for daytime local

Public - 0:48:22

services and not for mainline services or people waiting in the interchange at night.

There's the safety of women with girls, there's CTC TV and I really don't think this has been

popular today, I think this is just moving busses back to where they were.

Perhaps you can have a relook at this with Stagecoach.

I know Stagecoach have said to us they're not keen to move back to those stops which

are quite frankly pretty bleak for a mainline intercity travel into King Gloucester and

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:48:55

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:48:57

I'll have to take that question away as I'm not as you would probably like me to be.

Thank you.

Public - 0:49:03

I'm happy for a response because the public transfer user groups have raised this one

in a big way and I'm sure we'll be raising it with the Peace and Crime Commissioner as

well for community safety.

It does seem not a safe sensible solution to move busses out of a modern bus station

would like CTC TV on back onto the streets when we could use it just for

dial -a -ride services or community busses.

Chair - 0:49:26

Is that it David or did you have any other supplementaries?

Chair - 0:49:37

Public - 0:49:40

Actually just to ask where we are with the coach parking can we make it clear

To the tourists i love berton on the water as long as it has coach facilities and the tourists are allowed to go in there

But can, we publicise this more that coaches are welcome and we have a now a park and ride and stops facilities for coaches

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:50:05

Chair - 0:50:10

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:50:12

Am i allowed to defer this to a colleague i would cheque with that one yep yeah i'm told yes

Cllr Paul Hodgkinson - 0:50:14

Yeah, I'll take this one David because I represent on the water on the County Council. Um, yeah, this is a

It's a long -running saga. I mean that is the understatement of the century really it has been really really

Challenging to find somewhere in the village for coaches to park safely

The good news is that actually we now have found a drop -off and pickup point on Meadow Way in Borton on the water

If you know Borton, it's just towards the industrial estate

It has been frustrating because there have been issues in terms of putting getting that

in place, but I'm assured by Gloucestershire Highways that actually that will be in place

in the next couple of weeks.

Also parking enforcement, County Council parking enforcement has been working with coach drivers

and coach companies just to alert them to the fact they should be parking on the industrial

estate at Pullham's Coaches and also dropping off and picking up at Meadow Way.

So I hope in the next couple of weeks that comes to fruition as you know

Orton is round full of tourists at this time of year rightly so because it's a wonderful place and the weather's been wonderful

But that does bring challenges to the local population. So I hope we can sort this out very soon

Thank you

Chair - 0:51:26

One further one

Yeah

Public - 0:51:30

I think it's 38 because I'm working very hard as a member of the access panel for DFT for cross -country trains

Can we push again with the two MPs in Cheltenham and the MP in Stroud the need to get completed

Cheltenham Spa lifts on the railway station along with the bus links.

This is extremely important.

It's now £400 ,000 short.

We have to go out to the department for redesigning it.

But everything this council can do to get the lifts in place at Cheltenham Spa for passengers

We reduce mobility and wheelchair users and equally at Strad would be grateful. You see working Western Gateway

Transport board and Network Rail, but we now got an issue

We've got to find another 400 thousand pounds

Which is peanuts to Rachel reads really to make sure this happens in a town which has an accessible college chair and

universities and many disabled people

Thank you.

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:52:32

Thank you, David. Yeah, I mean this is a battle that I've been involved in for at least 10 years

And and it is a matter of extreme frustration

The lack of lifts at Shelton's fine indeed it's trade

and

Yes, we are very much on the case both as a County Council and I know that the district councils are and I know that

the MPs are

I have heard that Cheltenham's bar situation isn't very far away, but I've heard that before,

so we'll, you know, wait and see.

And I don't know what the latest situation is at Stroud.

I'd like to understand a bit after the meeting about how serious the Cheltenham situation

is.

I'm well aware of it, and I use those ramps frequently myself, but I'd really like to

understand more about the severity of the situation.

And that's really all I can say at this point.

Thank you.

Chair - 0:53:32

Thank you, David, for your questions.

We move back to 36 then.

Brent is here.

Thank you, Joe.

Public - 0:53:51

I'm just conscious of the time really,

Chair - 0:53:54

Public - 0:53:55

So I'll be as quick as I can with this really so first and foremost

Thank you for receiving the question in the spirit in which was offered and the spirit of the response really my supplementary

To the first question really is that this is great

the glossary fire and rescue service have been identified as not being introduced races in

2000 and

2024

But then when we look at all the services that the County Council provide is where do we have that independent?

Reassurance there as well

And again, I really thank whoever's responded to this but when I looked at the measures around this they all looked around

success measures as opposed to significant impact measures and

and also all the measures tended to be internal.

So how do we know for the people in community we serve,

for black, Asian, minority, ethnic communities,

that they don't feel this?

I've got one more supplementary for the last one,

but I can send it in.

One second to go.

Chair - 0:54:57

Public - 0:54:58

Thank you, appreciate that.

Chair - 0:54:59

Public - 0:55:00

Oh, Brent, thank you so much

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:55:01

for your supplementary question

and for raising this very, very important issue.

it's something that I think as an organisation and as an administration we

take incredibly seriously. I think your points there and the things that you've

raised are ones I'm going to take back and discuss with officers because I

think they are important. I think that work needs to be done via surveys,

speaking to our staff, making sure that they feel safe in order to raise

those points and also with our partners and the wider community. So I think you

So it is an unfortunate situation that I think collectively we find ourselves in in 2025

that racism still exists.

It really shouldn't happen.

We should be treating everyone with equality and respect.

That's something that I will always, always champion.

And I think as an organisation, I see lots of heads nodding and it's easy, perhaps as

a white middle class woman to say that and to understand the complexities of everything

that's going on but we do take it seriously and I'm going to take your

points that you've raised about how we can ensure ourselves that you know our

values that are actually being lived out in real life and I so thank you for

raising that something that we will continue to work on and continue to be

mindful of and I think you know that's that's the best that I can offer here

today is that it's something that I am aware of that I am conscious of and will

always always be thinking about so thank you for raising this. Thank you Lisa

Public - 0:56:31

and don't overlook the strength that our white allies bring to this as well,

and also with my national links and work to the local bit,

Chair - 0:56:41

I'll also help where I can. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Rosa Kell?

No.

Adrian Harris? No.

Yeah, I think we just about, I think we've got about two minutes.

Pardon? Sorry.

We are over.

I can see up there we have gone over.

Thank you.

I was doing it on my own.

Thank you very much.

I'm sorry about any further

if there are

the other folk here,

but it is important

to get your questions

in early.

Thank you.

Moving forward,

corporate parenting,

cabinet member,

thank you.

Cllr Ben Evans - 0:57:26

Thank you, chair.

I'm delighted to present

the corporate parenting report and I'm going to just highlight three things.

The first one is the nature of corporate parenting, the second one is around our

recent Ofsted inspection and the third one's a couple of points from the report.

So when I got elected I didn't quite realise that when you become a member of

the council you become a corporate parent and I just wanted to highlight

that that's what we are individually and as a group we take on what I think is a

responsibility.

And what that means is that we work together to ensure that the children who are in our

care, who are looked after by Gloucester County Council, get the best possible deal

that they can.

And that's going to mean different things for different people in this chamber.

You know, we've all been parented in some way.

Some of us have been parents as well.

Some of us adopted parents and fostered.

but I think as a group, it's really important

that we embrace that.

We try and do it cross party,

and actually some of the feedback we've had previously

from Ofc

need to be held accountable as the member who leads it. An intern, the Director of

Children's Services and the whole of our children's services are held accountable.

So please, I won't take difficult questions as a political dig or a jive. I

will take them in the way they're intended because as parents I think,

corporate parents, that's really important. The second thing, we had

independent, no sorry, the inspection of local authority children's

services, ILAX inspection in June, that's three weeks where they come and the

first week is spent looking at data, the next two weeks are spent talking to our

staff and to children and young people and families, a really intensive process.

Unfortunately there's a very strict embargo on the report so that while some

of us have seen that because of the QA process,

I would be in real trouble if I spoke any more about that.

So the only thing I will say is that I

would like to extend my thanks, and I do this

on behalf of everybody here, to the staff who were

amazing during those three weeks.

I met the lead inspector.

I'd only been in the role two weeks,

so I couldn't really answer very much.

And I walked the floor.

I spent a lot of time with Anne James, who's

our director for children's services.

and I tell you what, they were, whatever Ofsted said,

I'm not preempting the report, I can say this,

they were outstanding.

They were absolutely brilliant and they embraced it,

they were honest, they were professional,

they were wonderful and so, Anne, thank you to you

for leading that but I hope you'll pass that on,

that the whole chamber is really grateful

and we look forward, you know, we haven't always been able

I would say that in Gloucestershire.

We look forward to getting that report

and feeding it back to this group.

And then just a couple of things from the report,

which I'm happy to take questions on.

The first one I wanted to just draw attention

to is the corporate parenting group.

So I chair that and several,

I think there's about nine members on it.

It's a really good action group.

It's one of those, you know, in Council Squaw,

we talk a lot where this is a group

where you can actually take action.

and there have been some really definite outcomes

from things that have been done around language and care

and other bits and pieces.

And so I would, those of you involved in it,

please do go back to your groups and involve them

in what's happening and going on there.

And then the only other thing I draw your attention to

is in the statistics, in the attached,

you'll notice two really positive things.

One is that the number of children in care in Gloucestershire

has come down slightly.

That is the result of an awful lot of hard work

and redesigning services to try and get support in

as early as possible so we don't need to take children

into our care.

Those figures do go up and down.

And so there is a, I don't know,

when does something become a trend?

But certainly that's really positive.

And also I draw your attention to the fact

that more children who we do look after

are now being looked after in Gloucestershire.

That number still isn't right.

We want to get it lower.

the children who looked after out of the county

get lower.

There will never be zero, because sometimes

children do have to go out of county for

various reasons.

But we do want to make that lower and there's

a lot of work going on around children's

homes and how we do that differently.

I would also like to, just before I take

questions, is to thank Stephen Davis.

I met with Stephen, luckily, before

Ofsted turned out

and I met with Paul McLean, who was the

Conservative

lead on Cabinet for the past two years.

previously because it is cross party and I've got to say you've done a really

good job. You've done a really good job and I feel I feel slightly embarrassed

at times inheriting what is a fantastic team, a fantastic team but actually a lot

of the hard work and people won't know that hard work that's gone in the last

four years so you know it is a cross party thing but yeah I certainly and I

know it was really nice that we could invite you into that initial bit of

back where you could hear some of the really nice things that were said.

Chair - 1:03:06

Thank you very much, Ben, I'm sure, and we'll take that back to the team.

Thank you.

Questions please.

Then Chloe.

Yes, please.

Cllr Jeremy Hilton - 1:03:23

Yeah, can I just say that I'm pleased to see the number of children in care from its peak

of 885 reduced into 759.

I've asked questions about this previously in council.

I was concerned that this being growing and growing from a base of just a few years ago

when it was about 450 children in care, and you know, it's a sad reflection on society

that we have to have so many children in care.

So I'm really pleased to see that coming down.

I say, and I hope that it will further come down by the support that we're giving the families

So that we can give the support to families so they don't necessarily need to come into

the care of the County Council.

The other question I've got is that it says here that there was an unoccupied asylum seeking

children and that was 76 in quarter three, 2024, 2025.

Is that addition to the 759 or is that included in 759?

because this would be support, no doubt, that we're giving that would be funded

by the government because of that. But I just wonder whether it's in addition or included.

Well I can answer that question because I've got a quick look over my shoulder to our fantastic

Cllr Ben Evans - 1:04:37

Director of Children's Services who says it's included in that figure and you're right

that there will be some additional resource for that. Around the number of

children in care coming down and having gone up previously, there were lots of

reasons for that. Some of them in the national picture and some of them were

the way that the trajectory for Gloucestershire Children's Services has

gone and that number has raised significantly and it is beginning to

come down and you know obviously it's a key principle that whenever

possible children stay in their homes with their families and we

Chair - 1:05:16

Cllr Beki Hoyland - 1:05:19

provide the support there. Thank You councillor Hoyland, Becky. Thank you, thank you for the report, it's very good full report there and just want to acknowledge that we're all waiting with interest for the publication of the Ofsted report and hope that the findings show that our children are being cared for by a service that has improved since the last inspection.

So fingers crossed there.

I'm really sorry that I missed the last corporate parenting

board meeting.

It was a clash with the LGA.

But I'm really glad to still be on it.

And as one of the chairs of the subgroups,

the Stable Homes Built on Love subgroup, which I really

appreciate being on.

This subgroup aims to have an oversight of the work that

ensures that we are giving children in care

a positive foundation in the home that

will allow them to thrive.

Often this is a foster home.

Foster care has come in many guises.

We need a great diversity of people

that are willing and able to give a child a home.

And the work that they do is incredible, not easy,

but so important.

I'd like to give a particular shout out

to all the SGO and kinship carers that

have taken on this responsibility unexpectedly.

Thank you to them.

As counsellors, we're corporate parents.

and one of the things that we can do in this role

is to promote fostering through GCC

as a worthwhile and fulfilling choice.

And I was just going to ask if we can all consider

how we can do this.

There's some ideas that we can sign up to the newsletters

that go out, mention it in our reports to parish councils,

conversations with community groups, family, friends,

and perhaps we could consider adding a link to the fostering pages on the bottom of our email signatures.

Any other ideas would be welcome. Thank you. Not really a question, sorry.

No, thank you, Becky, and thank you for your work on the corporate parenting group.

Cllr Ben Evans - 1:07:25

I will echo your thanks to our foster carers, absolutely vital part of the county, unsung heroes,

and I want that on record that we do,

again, as corporate parents, really respect that.

In terms of how we get the message out,

it's a good question and one that Linda and I

are beginning to address.

Obviously, it's been addressed previously,

but we're beginning to think about how we can do it better.

I would really ask colleagues that

if you're going to a parish council meeting,

and some of us have got three parishes,

some of us have got 23,

that you do consider, do you consider raising it?

because parish councillors and these community groups,

they're people who are interested,

that's why they're on parish councils.

And so go into those networks and being warned.

There is literature available,

but I think we can do a better job

in making sure that's in the hands

of our councillors and members.

But certainly, yeah, especially if you're stuck,

yeah, I'm quite often stuck for stuff to say to my parishes

and so it's a good thing to add.

Chair - 1:08:20

Thank you, Councillor Turner, Chloe.

Cllr Chloe Turner - 1:08:22

Thank you very much, Chair.

Lots of positives in this report,

really good to see the direction of travel.

There are a few metrics where we're consistently

exceeding targets and have been for four

or five quarters now.

And I know we're all committed to be best in class,

so even where we're already above or below,

depending whether bigger or smaller is best,

national and peer group averages.

I just wanted your commitment that we will continue

to revise targets so that we are always aiming higher. Thank you.

Cllr Ben Evans - 1:08:57

Thanks Chloe. Yeah absolutely. I joked with Anne that the day we get the

report that comes in and says we're good the next morning we have the

meeting and say how are we gonna get to outstanding and if we get to outstanding

then we have the meeting the next morning say how do you get even better.

There is an absolutely bloody minded commitment to be the best absolute best

we can be and our children services will be there. It's a matter of when we get

there. The way we do that is through an improvement plan. The ambitions board sit

and review that and I know that Anne is going to take the feedback from the

Office of Deaf and Portwood and we get it, which will inevitably have, these are the things you

could do better, with some of these figures and with what fact, with all these

figures and the amount of metrics we generate in children's services. If you want

children's scrutiny you will see we will take those and build it into a new plan

The good thing about offset as stressful as it is is it does give you an absolute benchmark

And so it so it will give us those bits that we could do better on and work on and we will we will strive to

improve them

Thank You

Chair - 1:10:02

cancer David Steven

Cllr Stephen Davies - 1:10:06

Thank You chair and you made me blush Ben

But thank you for your kind words and actually you just asked to the question

I was going to ask because I do remember last time we had offset and we went from I'm inadequate to requires improvement

there is that huge sense of relief.

And then you have to pick yourself up

and set the next target and charge again.

I remember those conversations about how do we change

the improvement board to the ambitions board

because it has a different meaning and all those things.

And I would welcome at a later date,

either children's scrutiny or maybe your next corporate

report to understand that action more fully.

It's too early to say that today, obviously.

Cllr Ben Evans - 1:10:41

Yeah, thank you, Stephen.

And thank you for the spirit in which you asked it.

Yeah, I will.

I mean, we will bring it to scrutiny.

and whether it's ready for next council,

it depends when we get the report.

But yeah, I can only reiterate my commitment

and our commitment, and I know I share it with Anne

and the directors and all our staff,

that until every child has a great experience

of our services and until we're doing everything,

as well as we possibly can, we will not rest.

And I know you're aware of that,

because just the, sort of,

I don't know what the right word is,

is the madness of our directors to get a drive improvement

and they are not gonna settle

and I'm not gonna settle for anything less.

I'm sorry for calling our directors mad

but they're mad in a good way in terms of the ambitious.

Thank you.

Chair - 1:11:31

Is there any further questions from anybody?

Thank you very much,

close to the audience for your report.

Oh, sorry, did we have somebody?

Yes, thank you.

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 1:11:43

I would like to reiterate congratulations to Councillor Steve Davis for how he has brought

forward the level and exceeded the expectations. There is no one better to take on the reins

as Councillor Ben Evans so that is great to see your own charge going forward.

Looking at the report though I know there has been a lot of praise. We do need to look

at the facts and the facts are that children go missing remains at 10 % of children have

a missing episode. This is on page three of paragraph 11.

A repeat of episodes often involve the children at most high risk, so that's something that

really does need looking at, missing children and those children being on the high risk

suspensions have increased in school, 16 .6 % of children in

care have been suspended. So that's coming on to nearly a quarter of children

who have been suspended. That's page four, paragraph 15. So if these are two areas,

Ben, you can give your assurance that you're going to be looking into and trying to lift the bar on.

I think that would be really good because we're county lines in the city and the concerns of high -risk vulnerable children go missing.

It does raise significant concern. Thank you.

Cllr Ben Evans - 1:12:53

Thanks, Alex. So it's a really good question. And yeah, I mean, and taking on board Stephen's point, there is that sense of relief, but it's not good enough.

And there are some metrics which are really stubbornly not good enough.

The one that stands out is our care leavers and not in education, employment and training.

In terms of the specifics you've raised, yeah, absolutely.

We're talking about our most vulnerable children and young people.

So whilst I can't, I can give you my commitment to look at it and I'll absolutely give that

and I will take away to discuss and to look at the plan where we're addressing those bits.

But yeah, please, and I hope, Pete, that's a really good example of don't let me off

the hook.

You've got to you've got to and as a group we need to just make sure I'm accountable

on our children services are accountable because until you know, these are really vulnerable

children.

So thanks.

Thank you.

Chair - 1:13:44

I don't see any other questions.

So we'll move on to the next item, which is petitions we have four petitions to hand in

today.

So the first one is Councillor Chloe Turner on behalf of Gary Leff to Councillor Roger

Wyman.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

Cllr Chloe Turner - 1:14:05

Yes, presenting this on behalf of Gary who unfortunately isn't able to be here today,

and this is on behalf of the residents of Slad who are concerned about speeds into,

in and out of their village.

They want to work with the council to reduce speed so that walkers, cyclists, horse riders

drivers are safer and I'm pleased to present this to

Rogers this morning. Thank you.

Chair - 1:14:50

Next one, Councillor Martin Hord, to Councillor Roger Wyman.

I have.

Chair - 1:15:13

It is on my list but we will worry about that.

Councillor Alastair Chambers, Councillor Chambers to the right.

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 1:15:28

Chair - 1:15:30

Joe Harris of which for the petition is a chair I've got two to it sorry I

didn't catch that I've got two petitions in charge petition on my

direction first you have one on Kingsway okay thank you I like to invite also the

fellow councillor for the area of the Kings where adjacent priesthood to

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 1:15:49

comment on this as well if that's possible chair as it is his ward as a

I'm not as resident only as a resident but as a county council that there is significant

issues with Kingsway at the moment and exiting Kingsway, especially in the morning.

My daughter's bus got changed from quarter past eight to 7 .45 for a mile journey down

the road.

That's an hour, an hour and 15 minutes to sit on the bus for literally a mile down the

road which isn't acceptable.

Traffic getting in and out of Kingsway in the mornings is absolutely horrific and there

needs to be looked at, a temporary deviation system potentially opening up the two bus

gates, only temporary to help leave traffic during the mornings periods while the road

works are going on.

I think it's been signed by about 800 residents which is a significant amount.

Bearing in mind the housing development was only for 2 ,450 residents to begin with.

Populations increased dramatically to six thousand five hundred residents

In the area, so it shows that there's three times that and the highway system has not been improved

So to come to Joe house, I wish you would look into this if you have not done already

And I think Jason would like to come to chase increase like to speak on it as well

Cllr Jason Preece - 1:17:10

I totally agree what?

Alice just say I do feel it does need a permanent solution or do feel it actually needs a third exit permit in and out

Not just to that it has with this just for the sheer amount of volume of traffic going in and out of it

So that that's all I want to say. Thank very much

Chair - 1:17:32

Thank You case for this did you have anything to present or is it online?

Not like the greens we didn't print off a lot of paper to hand over

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 1:17:39

we are

Chair - 1:17:41

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 1:17:44

reform and independence, obviously independence leading the way with climate change.

We decided just to do an electronic one.

Thank you, Chad.

Chair - 1:17:48

Thank you, Alistair.

You had the second one on the drainage system improving the flood prevention on Banbury

Road.

Did you wish to speak on that one?

Yes, thank you, Chad.

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 1:18:00

So this one's really one close to my heart.

Robinswood Hill is the largest hill in Gloucester, not in the county.

I think it's ninth biggest in the county.

It stands at just under 700 feet in height and you wouldn't think three quarters where the hill houses would be flooded

Well currently they do and not because they're all wrapping up to the riverbank on the river seven

Not because there's a brook running by purely for the fact that the highways drainage and seven Trent drainage are inadequate

It's very very unfortunate to pass by there several times in the summer months during flash flooding to find the 80 year old lady

with a skirt around where her waist,

wading through her house,

trying to save the photos of her late husband.

Really, really sad to see, to be honest.

So I call on Councillor Joharis to make this his priority.

It's been long overdue.

There's videos on Facebook,

I can show you live videos to show the severity of it.

Literally as cars pass by,

it sends another tidal wave through these people's homes,

and they're all pretty much,

they're all retired and worldly.

Some of them have even put their house on the market for half the price just to get out of that

So it's not really fair. So if you can look into that really appreciate it. Thank you

Chair - 1:19:19

Thank Thank You Alistair. There was some question as to whether it should go to Joe

or to Martin so

It will be online. So if either Joe or Martin can deal with that

Over that one, thank you

Chair - 1:19:37

Okay, right moving on then. We've had our petitions so we go to the motions. So the

first motion today is the county -wide commitment to reducing violence abuse and

exploitation of women and girls. You have a proposal Alistair, against the

chambers. You have a seconder Alistair. I believe I do have some cross party support

from Councillor Lindecoen.

OK.

So we got a seconder there in Councillor Lindecoen.

Thank you.

And it's cross party.

Do you want to speak on that?

Or first, please?

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 1:20:22

Yes, please, Chair.

Thank you.

Chair, Councillors, today I bring forward a motion

not born out of politics, but our moral obligation

and public duty, a motion that seeks

to confront the uncomfortable and undeniable truth

that women and girls in Gloucestershire and across the county are disproportionately affected

by violence, abuse and exploitation.

Let me be clear, these are not isolated incidences or rare occurrences.

They're persistent, widespread and often hidden in plain sight.

Whether it's women afraid to walk home at night, teenage girl facing coercive control

in a first relationship or a mother suffering silence behind closed doors, the fear, the

In 2023 alone, thousands of women across the UK experience domestic abuse or sexual violence.

The sad reality is that many never report it, many never speak up, and many never simply are just quite there hiding in the silence.

Chair, colleagues, silence is no longer an option. We must make a stand, not just in words, but in meaningful coordination and long -term action.

This motion sets out seven clear and achievable steps

to this council.

These include partnering with the newly created

Gloucestershire Women's Safety Initiative,

the police, the NHS, the voluntary groups to deliver

joined up county wide response,

reviewing the services we currently offer to victims,

and most importantly, being honest where we fall short,

challenging the culture, the misogyny,

the casual harassment, the so -called banter

that often acts as a gateway to abuse,

and making our streets safer through better lighting and better CCTV.

Educating our young people about respect, about boundaries and about what healthy

relationships should and what they do look like. Calling on our Peace Prime

Commissioner to treat violence against women and girls as top -tier priority and

ensuring our own organisation, Gloucestershire County Council, leads by example in

trauma, reforms, survivor focus, safeguarding awareness. This is not about

creating a world where women and girls are told to stay safe, it's about

creating a world where they are safe, because structures, the systems and the culture protect them.

Chair, this is not a women's issue, it's a human issue, it's a Gloucestershire issue and it's where this council can out -shy away from.

Let us unite across parties, across communities and across services to say enough is enough.

We will not normalise abuse, we will not tolerate harassment, we will not allow silence or shame to win.

Let us show women and girls at Gloucester and Gloucestershire that their safety, their

dignity and their right to live free from fear matters to this council.

And that we would do all we can to turn those words into action.

I urge councillors and colleagues to support this motion and I commend it to council.

Thank you.

Chair - 1:23:08

Linda Cohen, did you wish to speak now?

Cllr Linda Cohen - 1:23:14

I have no hesitation in seconding this motion and its recommendations but will

purposely keep it brief. There are too many words spoken by public figures on

this subject often a bitter regret and a promise to do better but never followed

up with enough action. Only yesterday the Domestic Abuse Commissioner produced a

damning report that shows a systematic failure of governments to learn from the

of domestic abuse victims, a failure to provide any sort of leadership and a failure of government

departments to follow or even be aware of recommendations.

Keir Starmer's big vision to have violence against women and girls is against the backdrop

of a savage spending review, despite charities warning about the dire consequences for victims

of domestic and sexual violence.

It is sobering that NHS has more contact with victims and perpetrators than any other public

service.

Help is not coming.

Gloucestershire services need to step into the breach and take responsibility.

We must mobilise and effectively support our public services and the excellent community

support groups like Family Action and the Nelson Trust which have the insight and understanding

to make further inroads into this work.

Everyone in this chamber has a part to play as a champion or ambassador.

It's worth remembering that the sanctuary of home on which we all rely for safety and

respite can be a place of terrible and relentless violence and fear for women and girls, often

only a few streets from where we live. An existence of misery from which there is no

escape. How much worse then that when the few find the opportunity to escape and to

raise the alarm, health if it does come is often too slow and often tragically too late.

Many of the families of victims killed by domestic abusers speak of their desire to

to prevent further murders, we must listen.

We need to come to the aid of all those

who faced physical and daily sexual abuse

and violence and enslavement.

In some cases, of course, this can be men.

But vitally, if we are to protect future generations,

we must change the culture which allows this tyranny

to continue and provide the reassurance

that when the courage is found to speak out,

that we will believe and act.

The motion sets out a plan of action.

We need to lead, most importantly to educate our community and support those who endure abuse to be able to lead the lives that we would wish for ourselves with peace and safety and fulfilment for themselves and for their children.

Please unreservedly support this motion.

Chair - 1:25:50

Cllr Linda Cohen - 1:25:55

Thank you Linda.

today. Awareness is key and we need to keep talking about this issue publicly.

Cllr Rebecca Trimnell - 1:26:07

Although for many of us perhaps around this chamber it can trigger unease and reopen past

rooms. Violence and intimidation against women and girls was declared an epidemic

by the National Police Chief's Council in 2024. Over 1 million violence and

intimidation against women and girls related crimes recorded during 22 -23

accounted for 20 % of all police recorded crimes.

Statistically, violent offences are committed mostly by men,

but let us not forget that they do occur by women against men

and also in same -sex relationships.

Domestic abuse perpetrators are hiding within all communities

and professions, and their damaging behaviour thrives

on going unnoticed or unchallenged.

We must also be aware that the law has changed

to recognise children as victims of domestic abuse

and the harm caused by children witnessing or hearing

domestic abuse occurring, even if they are not physically

harmed or abused themselves.

These children sadly grow up into adults

who often struggle with themselves

and their own relationships, unable to trust and

differentiate between what is a healthy relationship

and what is not.

What is acceptable behaviour and what is not, leading to increased anxiety, depression, isolation and sadly suicidal thoughts.

As the cabinet member for community engagement on Gloucester City Council, I am encouraged to hear about the work which is happening here in this very city, ending male violence against women and girls.

It is rightly a priority for the stronger, safer Gloucester partnership.

Moreover, the OPCC for Gloucestershire already has tackling violence against women and girls,

challenging unacceptable attitudes and behaviours also as a priority in the Police and Crime Plan 2025 -2029.

Partnership work to tackle such violence across the county is led through the Domestic Abuse Local Partnership Board and Sexual Violence Partnership Board.

These multi -agency groups include all of the agencies mentioned in this motion and together

they map and commission services to support people affected by domestic abuse and violence

in all its forms.

In going forward, we know that we need to work with men and boys as well as women and

girls if we want to really make a difference.

We also know that there needs to be more of a focus on challenging and changing perpetrator

behaviours rather than simply supporting victims after incidents. Lastly but no

means least we need to continue supporting and developing more community

education and awareness including bystander interventions and raising

awareness focusing on family and friends to recognise domestic abuse signs and

Chair - 1:29:06

Cllr Rebecca Trimnell - 1:29:10

encourage communities to discuss and challenge such behaviours. Of course I will be

supporting this motion today and hope that it will be passed unanimously. Thank you.

Chair - 1:29:16

Thank you. Councillor, Hodgkinson, Paul.

Cllr Paul Hodgkinson - 1:29:21

Yeah, thank you. I just wanted to say some words on this as domestic abuse actually fits

within my cabinet portfolio. And it's very interesting hearing what people have said.

It's very powerful stuff. Actually, if you look at the definition of what violence against

women and girls is it when you read it it is awful and I will I will read it to

you acts of violence or abuse that we know disproportionately affect women and

girls including but not limited to following crimes and behaviours rape

sexual offences domestic abuse stalking honour -based abuse including female

genital mutilation forced marriage on a killings terrible stuff isn't it really

terrible stuff now domestic abuse can obviously fall within that has been said

and anyone can be the subject to domestic abuse.

It is disproportionately aimed at women.

80 % of domestic abuse cases are against women,

but 20 % are men, and it's just worth mentioning

that of that 20%, a disproportionate part of that

is gay men.

I personally know gay men who have been subjected

to violence in their own relationships,

and it is an awful thing.

So we must not forget that.

But clearly, it is mostly about women.

And I think I'm proud and I'm sure we all are that the County Council became a white -ribbon

Accredited organisation last year just outside the council chamber. There's you know something which talks about that that white ribbon

Accreditation is across 60 countries in the world including the UK and I think we should be very proud of that

Locally the response to this is shared between several lead organisations Rebecca has mentioned a few it's not just us

it's the Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner and in fact with regard to

domestic abuse next week I'll be presenting to the cabinet the strategy

on domestic abuse for the next three years. There's loads of amazing stuff in

it but let me just give you some statistics. In the last year just in

Gloucestershire 11 ,329 violence against women and girl crimes were recorded.

11 ,329.

It is appalling, isn't it?

Of which 5 ,450 were domestic abuse.

So we have a lot going on.

And in Parliament, Josh Baburinde, one of our MPs,

is leading the fight there to get this more recognised

in terms of convictions too.

So I'll just summarise by saying that we work closely

with the Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner.

But most importantly, we have to listen to the victims.

We have to listen to the women and girls who are victims and survivors.

We have a role that we co -fund with the Police and Crime Commissioner, a consultation officer

who works directly with those survivors and victims and that is so, so important.

So let's absolutely get behind this motion today.

Let's remember all the victims of domestic abuse and violence.

Thank you Paul.

Chair - 1:32:24

Councillor Lee -Chalice, thank you.

Cllr Leigh Challis - 1:32:26

Yes, thank you Chair.

and thank you to my fellow councillors who have spoken out about this matter today.

Violence against women and girls is abhorrent and Reform UK fully support this motion.

One of our concerns coming from a rural community is that our women and girls will miss out again with the support needed.

The services and drop -ins for women's and girls' needs are mostly concentrated in larger urban areas

and they are always and they have always have been.

We would like assurances that the women and girls

in our areas and other rural areas throughout Gloucestershire

get a fair share of resources

and we would like to know how this will be achieved.

We expect to also find that schemes such as street safe

and safe spaces will be funded in the larger areas,

but we may hear that this is not financially practical in smaller towns where women and

girls have been experiencing many of these issues in recent years, especially in Cinderford,

Colford and Lydney. Women in our forest towns are repeatedly expressing their concerns to

us that they do not feel as safe as they once did, and I would include myself in that, especially

Over the last five years. I hope we can have an honest discussion

So that we can meet the needs of all women and girls in all areas such as the forest

Thank you, and we look forward to addressing these issues together

Chair - 1:34:05

Thank you

Counsellor Stephen Davis, thank you

Cllr Stephen Davies - 1:34:11

Thank You chair, and I'm not going to repeat much of what's already been said

but obviously agree strongly with it, and this is a very important and serious issue.

I was going to make one point, though, particularly harking back to the children's services we

were talking about earlier.

Clearly, issues of domestic abuse often then have impact on the children in those relationships

as well, and there is a connexion, and it really raises the question of the state of

society today in many ways, and I therefore welcome this motion to address that.

I think it's also worth stressing out and I think it was mentioned before we are active in this area

But there was always much much more we could do and why I particularly welcome this motion is its reference to that

We need to work better together. And this is one of those things Gloucester does well

We've done it in other areas where we've come together set up organisations and worked across

Currently district councils the police and charities and that is something I hope this motion will encourage us to do. Thank you

Thank you.

Thank you, Stephen.

Chair - 1:35:16

Councillor Horwicks, Craig.

Thank you.

Cllr Craig Horrocks - 1:35:21

We in the Green Group absolutely support the sentiment of this motion.

Violence against women and girls in all its forms is a blight in our society and deserves

nothing less than our best efforts in trying to eradicate it.

However, we do think there is a need to consider whether this motion would benefit from further

clarification and refinement for a few reasons. The first talks about a joined

up approach as Councillor Davis has mentioned in working with other

organisations of the statutory organisations in voluntary sector.

We'd like to see what that means in practise. We often hear the phrase let's

work in a joined up fashion. It needs to be backed with some practical methods by

which that happens. On that basis we would recommend that that joint

approach takes the form of a multi -agency strategy, a Gloucestershire -wide strategy

focused particularly on violence against women and girls as distinct from

domestic abuse which forms part of that. So while we would support that

motion we'd recommend that some detail is added to what that means in practise

and also consideration is given to

Promoting a cross Gloucestershire strategy which includes all active partners within that

Chair - 1:36:45

Thank you, thank you councillor Horrocks, I'm surely cabinet member will be listening to you

Councillor Spivey Lisa

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 1:36:54

Thank you chair and thank you council chambers for bringing this a very important motion

I know it's something that we have already discussed in the previous council,

so it continues to be an issue.

And the statistics that we've heard today really are very shocking,

and I think something that we should all be taking very, very seriously.

I'd just like to pick up on a couple of the points that have been raised.

And actually, Councillor Chalice, I can tell that we're going to be great

to work together because we are championing rural areas.

And I talk a lot, you'll hear me talking a lot about rural discrimination,

because what we find is that in our rural areas access to services is really really difficult and whilst you know,

we have many opportunities within our

Bigger larger towns and city to access services that rural element is makes things really really difficult

So I'm pleased that you have already and in your first and speech here in this in this chamber raised that and it's something which

Is first and foremost in my mind because when you can't get a bus at all

never mind, getting to services is a really big thing.

So thank you for raising that.

I'll also pick up on your point around safer streets

and street safe, that is something initiative

that is rolled out and that we can all be part of again.

And what I really wanted to talk about

was our responsibilities as councillors in this sphere

and as leaders.

So not just to be always exhibiting the best behaviour

and calling things out, I think that idea

of being that bystander and making sure that we are the ones to call things out. Sometimes

I get accused by my children of being overly woke in this arena, but actually I think given

the seriousness of this, you can't ever call out misogyny too much because that is what

leads to violence and towards the aggression towards women and girls and I think it's really,

really important that we do that. I'm really pleased to see that we've talked a lot in this

motion, Alistair, about partnership working, everybody has agreed with that and I think to

your point Councillor Horwicks, perhaps what we could do with Councillor Hodgkinson and with

Siobhan Farmer of theirs, we could bring a briefing back to the whole council about the work that we're

doing around this. I know that it's something that's picked up at our adult social care and

community scrutiny committee but there is work going on and I think it is really important that

we see those action plans really playing out

so that that difference is made.

And yeah, just finally, I'd like to thank

all of the officers and members of staff here

in this organisation who are our white ribbon ambassadors

and champions, I think they're doing a great work

and I think that that organisation,

and having that really important piece of work

is doing a really good job at tackling this.

I know that the White Ribbon Association,

for want of a better word, is very active and they often have meetings where they will

call everyone in and forums, so I would encourage everybody who can to attend those and to hear

about the really great work that's happening across this organisation. Let's not forget,

we employ 4 ,000 people, so that's a great start within Gloucestershire if we are being

Chair - 1:40:03

those champions and wearing our white ribbons.

You're winding up now?

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 1:40:08

Yes, I am. Thank you very much. I fully support this.

Chair - 1:40:09

Thank you. I've got Councillor Willingham David and then Councillor Richard Stanley.

Cllr David Willingham - 1:40:17

Thank you chair. I intend to be very brief just to add some points that about the partnership

that we can have with our districts and things that we can all do. So one of the areas I've

quite a lot of experience on from being a district council is licencing and

within the licencing act 2003 policy which has to be reviewed on a five

yearly basis there is definitely opportunities to put or request the

council's add features in into that policy to protect women when they are

out in venues such as pub club pubs clubs late night refreshment venues one

such thing is asked for Angela.

So if someone feels

vulnerable they can go to bar staff or

those behind the counter and ask for Angela and then they will get the support.

There's also how we have or how

those districts have their taxi and private hire policies.

Something that obviously we can't directly

influence at the moment but also we should

bear this in mind for local government reorganisation

because whatever unitary comes after or unitaries come after LGR they will be

the licencing authority they will have to develop these policies and we can

try and cement the policies to protect vulnerable people through licencing into

that policy work when it comes forward. Thank you chair.

Thank you David. Councillor Stu Stanley.

Chair - 1:41:57

Cllr Richard Stanley - 1:41:58

Thank you. I just wanted to add a couple of points. I won't repeat points that I've already made,

but I recently had the honour of meeting Nick Gazard, father of Holly Gazard, and I just

thought given the location that we are so close to where Holly tragically lost her life, it would be

remiss not to mention her and to praise the Gazard Trust for the phenomenal work that they've done in

Gloucestershire and beyond. Secondly, to the point on rural communities, and many of us represent

rural communities and tragically it is a hidden,

too often hidden challenge within all communities

but particularly I think rural communities

have an extra vulnerability and I thought it was worth

mentioning the Excellent Cutout Campaign

which members may or may not be aware

but is a charity organisation that works with salons

and hairdressers to help raise awareness

and train hairdressers and salons to be able

to recognise the signs and also to provide

help and support.

So I just thought it was worth mentioning those two points.

And my final point is that I think tragically

we are facing an avalanche in the future.

When you see the hate and misogyny that has been allowed

to spread pretty well unchecked online

and has permeated into sadly the minds

of many young boys particularly,

but men and young boys online, I fear for the future.

So I think that this is a really important motion

That's been brought I think council chambers for bringing it and as was mentioned by the second to it's about the action that we now

Do not just the words, but thank you

Chair - 1:43:35

Thank You cancer Stanley if there's no further questions and go back to

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 1:43:46

Councillors to chambers to sum up. It's cheap. Thank you chair given that we've got a lot to go through

I'm not going to do a closing speech because I think we're all in the right consensus

So I'm going to just go straight to the boat. Thank you

Okay chambers

Chair - 1:43:58

So if we could then go straight to the vote on the

proposal so

All those in favour, please show the hands. I

See that to you now, thank you very much. Thank you. Chancellor chambers for bringing that today

Chair - 1:44:27

So we go on to now the next motion motion 959

proposal Councillor Chloe Turner and

Do you have a seconder?

Cllr Chloe Turner - 1:44:39

Chair - 1:44:40

Yes, Councillor Paul, Hodgkinson. Thank you

Chloe thank you very much chair

Chair - 1:44:47

Cllr Chloe Turner - 1:44:48

Margaret Thatcher privatised water in the England of Wales in 1989 and since then the private sector has had a virtually

unfettered ability to plunder the system, building up a debt mountain of over 60

billion pounds and with more than 85 billion extracted by shareholders over

the last 35 years. Privatisation was supposed to mean lower bills and a

better service, but with a monopoly in each area, in fact the opposite has

happened. Surely no more so than in areas of Gloucestershire served by Thames

water where the infrastructure is creaking at the seams while the bills just keep on rising.

In the face of climate change, water is a precious resource we need to conserve

and yet the company lost 200 billion litres of water in leaks last year, nearly a quarter of its

entire supply and the sewage just keeps on pumping and with it the pollutants that are in our system

to stay. Morton in Marsh, for example, has the highest forever chemical results in the

whole of the UK. And I'm sure Paul may say more in a minute on the situation in the Cotswolds

thanks to TENS. It doesn't have to be like this. Most of the world respects water as

a fundamental human right and it ought to be a no -brainer for government. But what's

concerning is that ministers are relying on advice commissioned by the water companies

and specifically on a report described as economically illiterate by the Oxford

Professor of Economic Policy, Dieter Helm. Independent research shows that

privatisation can be achieved at minimal cost and a recent report from

the University of Greenwich showed that taking the English and the Welsh water

systems into public ownership, because although the Welsh model is

nonprofit it's still debt financed, would save three to five billion in annual

financing costs.

This could be put towards new investment or reduce

the average annual water bill by 100 to 160 pounds

per year.

In all of this, what's missing, though, is

scrutiny.

Government recently came close to selling Thames

water to the notorious U .S.

private equity firm KKR in a deal negotiated behind

closed doors with no seat at the table for bill

payers, staff, unions, or representatives for the

natural environment that Thames has littered with excrement.

So much so that campaign organisations,

We Own It and Compass were moved to set up

an alternative board, which I've been pleased to sit on

as former chair of the Environment Scrutiny Committee

of this council, as a representative of one of the five

Shire counties in the Thames region,

and to take part in regular meetings and campaign actions.

I will now pass the baton to a member

of our new administration on that board.

In this motion, we ask government to look seriously

at bringing water into public ownership,

preferably through full nationalisation,

but otherwise through the creation

of a public benefit vehicle,

such as a company limited by guarantee.

Last night, there were encouraging signs

with Thames Water threatening temporary nationalisation,

which for the majority of its stakeholders

would be a great prize.

Having reported a loss of 1 .6 billion pounds for the year to March and

executive bonuses being paid from its emergency loan, surely the end must be in

sight. But let's make it a good end, one where the solution is a shared endeavour,

transparent and scrutinised by those who had to prop up the company. Bill pairs,

staff, unions and nature. Those across Gloucestershire and further afield who

had to endure this for far, far too long. Water is too important to be in private hands

and for me, nationalisation is the only credible option to end the unlawful dumping of sewage,

stop rewarding shareholders for failure, reinvest all profits back into fixing leaks and building

new infrastructure that's fit for the future. Thank you.

Thank you.

Chair - 1:49:01

Cllr Paul Hodgkinson - 1:49:04

Thank you very much.

As Chloe has said, I'm sad to say that this country has become the sewage capital of Europe.

That's the reality, isn't it?

And everyone knows that in recent years we've seen an increase in the amount of sewage being

dumped into our waterways, and yet Thames Water bosses have been paid bonuses while

the rest of us are being asked to pay inflation -busting water bills in the

future and right now. And in my opinion you only get a bonus for doing a good

job, not a terrible one. Now in the North Cotswolds, where Thames Water manage our

water, the village of Amdovesford in 2023 saw 2 ,000 hours of raw sewage pumped

into the River Colne. It made national headlines, not surprisingly, and in fact

last year was even worse. The River Wind Rush, which is on the east side of the Cotswolds,

was the first place I read and heard about raw sewage being pumped into it when the lobby

group WASP, who do a fantastic job, contacted me a few years ago before it was a widely

known scandal. And that's what it is, a scandal. Now in the Cotswolds we saw almost three times

as many hours of sewage pumped into our rivers last year than we did the previous year. These

These numbers are a disgrace but of course it's not just the Cotswolds, it's the whole of Gloucestershire and 7 Trent has a poor record too.

All this of course is perfectly legal at the moment and as Chloe has said Thames Water is currently losing one quarter of its water supplies every day thanks to underinvestment.

Now Thames Water is in particular trouble. Yesterday it announced it made a lot of £1 .6 billion so the crisis is deepening.

And now they're saying it will take a decade to sort this out.

They want to use our money to pay for their incompetence and unfortunately the government

is not doing enough to stop them.

We need new legislation and we need something to stop Thames Water failing because that's

what it is.

It is a failing company.

And that's why I absolutely support the call to end the private company status of Thames

Water.

In our view, it should be a public benefit company

Privatisation has been a disaster for clean water

It's been a disaster for Gloucestershire and it's been a disaster for every person in the Thames water area. Please support this motion

Chair - 1:51:30

Thank You

Councillor Tom Bradbury

Cllr Tom Bradley - 1:51:37

Thank Thank You chairman

And it will come as no surprise that I join in that

criticism of Thames Water and the damage that they've

done to our environment locally.

But I must disagree with some of the colleagues who

have spoken already in terms of that attitude to

privatisation.

And when we look at the UK water market as a whole,

the independent network model is working.

You look at new developments, that's 80

percent of those now with the independent model.

They have cheaper bills for consumers.

They have far cleaner and far better environmental records and they're able to act fast and for

their local communities.

Particularly picking up on the Welsh model that was discussed earlier by Councillor Turner,

Wales actually has one of the worst performing water companies in terms of environmental

record, in terms of customer satisfaction and in terms of their ability to react to

their local community.

So whilst I join in the criticism of Thames water and agree that it is it has failed in its dereliction of its duties

I cannot support this on the basis that I do not think that a return to the public sector is the way forward

Thank you

Chair - 1:52:49

Thank you

Councillor patient John

Cllr Chris McFarling - 1:53:16

You

Thank you

Historically water was considered a public health necessity rather than a commodity and water was supplied with the goal of universal provision

Chair - 1:53:32

Are we there?

Right, thank you.

Cllr John Patient - 1:53:39

Historically, potable water was supplied with the goal of universal provision.

Pricing was based on a concept of social equity with household supply not metered and bills linked to property value.

In 1974, the 10 regional water authorities were created by Edward Heath's Conservative government.

Then in 1979, another conservative government,

Margaret Thatcher's, curtailed the regional water

authorities ability to borrow the money

they deemed necessary for capital projects.

Before that, they could borrow money easily

at very good rates.

As a result, by 1980, investment in the water sector

was just one third of what it had been in 1970.

The regional water authorities were then considered

ineffective because they could not borrow money.

To summarise, Thatcher prevented the regional water authorities from borrowing and then blamed them for not building new infrastructure.

Despite this, at this point the UK became the only country in the world to fully privatise the water sector.

And that was done by Thatcher in 1989.

And the 10 newly created water and sewage companies

between them paid 7 .6 billion

for the regional water authorities.

At the same time, the government assumed responsibility

for the sector's total debts amounting to 5 billion.

And further granted the water and sewage companies

a further 1 .5 billion,

a so -called green dowry of public funds.

So this means that there is only a net investment of 1 .1 billion from the investors.

The estimates of the capital expenditure at that time required to achieve the EU standards

and meet the backlog in infrastructure maintenance range from 24 to 30 billion.

Instead, since privatisation, the water companies have paid out 72 billion in dividends and

have accumulated 54 billion in debt.

What are the results that we had?

We've had household water bills rising

by 40 to 43 % in real terms.

And things like raw sewage incidents,

back in, even back in 2016, there were only 12 ,637.

Currently in 2022, the latest figures,

we actually have 372 ,000 sewage incidents being reported.

Chair - 1:56:15

water should once more be considered a public health necessity rather than commodity and

Cllr John Patient - 1:56:22

the required level of investment made to ensure this happens.

Thank you.

Chair - 1:56:24

Thank you.

I know you started late, sorry about that, particularly with your maiden speech.

Councillor Vernon Smith.

Cllr John Patient - 1:56:33

Yes, thank you, Chair.

Cllr Vernon Smith - 1:56:36

Quite interesting actually because in the Houses of Commons yesterday there was a select

committee looking at, and they were questioning the chairman, I think his name is Simon Weston,

but don't quote me on that, but I was listening to the chairman of Thames Water, and the very

question of nationalisation came up. And what he said was that, basically they didn't know,

but what they did say was it would be an absolute enormous cost to the taxpayer. Also he said

that the debt would have to be taken on, that Thames Water have, by the government as well.

So we are talking an enormous debt. But he couldn't answer the question. And so that's

what I feel with this motion. Because there's a lot of merit, reform feel, for nationalisation

of certain industries. But this motion lacks that detail of how much it would cost. And

And if the water board and the government don't know, I feel this is more a question

for our local MPs to be asking government to come up with the answers to what it would

actually cost to nationalise Thames Water.

And don't forget we've lost a share of this 7 Trent as well, so Thames Water is only a

certain area.

Because I fear that the costs would be enormous.

So on that issue, with this motion here today, what Reform Group have decided to do is we

are going to abstain because you do need those details to vote it through.

Thank you.

Chair - 1:58:15

Thank you, Councillor Smith.

Now, I understand from Councillor Spivey that you have a friendly amendment agreed?

Yes, we do.

It will go up on the screen now.

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 1:58:26

Yes, we do, Chair.

So this was circulated to the Green Party prior to today.

And apologies to others,

it was a little bit fun to getting things,

our docs in a row for want of a better analogy.

But yeah, that's there on screen for everybody to see.

Thanks, Latuna.

Are you happy with that?

Chair - 1:58:48

Yes, sorry, I should have said at the outset,

I'm very happy to accept that as a friendly amendment.

Yeah, okay, thank you.

Councillors Joe Harris you wish to speak no

Sorry, oh

Sorry

Cllr Mark Harris - 1:59:10

Nearly and just a correction in a report by the

side business school at Oxford they and this is from

2000 to 2020 Welsh waters a bill change on average went down by 4 % compared to

Thames waters 20 % increase the only other household bill change was angling

was down 1 % everybody everybody else went up so slight correction there and

on average over the last 20 years Welsh waters customer service satisfaction

Indicator has been higher than all the other

I just thought I clarified that

Thank you, sorry about the name

Chair - 1:59:55

Councillor Davis Stephen

Thank you chair

Cllr Stephen Davies - 2:00:00

I'm going to agree with Tom and to an extent with Vernon on this in that I think there's a debate about

What is an alternative to what's happening?

There's a long discussion about whether privatisation is a good or a bad thing on whether the issue is the

Regulation of private companies versus the concept of private companies. Let's not spend too much time on that

From our perspective clearly, I think we all condemn Thames water and their behaviour

I've had seven Trenton fact and I'm looking at Joe in terms of highways

The disruption and damage some of these utilities due to our highways should be added into this as well

but because of that dilemma about where we go with this and also because I

Generally don't like motions that end up in writing to ministers. We will also be abstaining but please don't take that as anyway any

Anything other than a criticism of Thames water?

Chair - 2:00:56

Thank You Steven

Council really

Cllr Gary Luff - 2:01:02

Cllr Beki Hoyland - 2:01:03

Thank you.

Well, I'd just like to say that we can exist for three minutes

without air, and we can exist for three days without water.

It's one of our basic human requirements.

Indeed, it violates UK's health and safety regulation

to deny tap water to someone.

How can something so basic as clean, drinkable water

and safe management of our sewerage infrastructure

be used to make huge individual and corporate profit. How can this vital service not have

public scrutiny? I urge you all to support this motion as a step towards taking water

out of the hands of for -profit organisations. Thank you.

Chair - 2:01:52

Thank you, Becky. Councillor Spiree, please.

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 2:01:55

Thank you, Chair. Actually, I think that perhaps the leader of reform should speak to his deputy

leader of his party who it was reported in the Financial Times as saying that the

re -nationalisation of Thames Water was essential. So perhaps he wants to just

cheque in on that. I never thought I would agree with Richard Tyson absolutely

anything but actually today I do. Who would have thought it? And I would ask

him, building on that point, I mean really you know we talked about cost at this

but really what cost? You know we bailed out our banks because we thought that

they were too big to fail and yet we can't in Gloucestershire, we literally can't get

into our rivers and we can't be trusted that our environment is being completely decimated

by the amount of sewage which is flowing out every single day to it. And Paul mentioned

some of the figures and I'll pick up because the area that the division that I represent

is one of the largest affected. So in my neighbouring division which actually runs through the

Shorncote Ditch in Syrinsester had 4 ,460 hours of non -stop sewage going out into it in 2024.

Put that into context, I think it's better.

That's 186 days worth of sewage just flowing out into our rivers.

Fairford, Councillor Morris will know it very well, the cone hugely affected.

That was 181 days of sewage being spilled into our rivers.

and Anthony St. Peter right in the heart of my division 129 days. Those are the highest

spillers across our region and actually to give it in context in Gloucestershire

as a whole because Thames Water aren't the only villains here we also have on

an average 9 ,634 hours of spilling and that is about 12 years of non -stop

spelling going on. I mean it's just absolutely ridiculous. We're here now in

a heatwave where what I'd really like to do is to take my kids and my dog and sit

by the river, plunge in it, you know, a bit of kind of swallows in Amazon style

and I can't do that. I kept it, you know, we all have to sit sweltering away when

we've got this free wonderful natural resource. Here we are in the Cotswolds in

Gloucestershire with amazing natural landscape and we can't access and that

is because profit has been put before the good quality of our waters and let's

you know call Thames out on that. They have continued via their convoluted

fiscal arrangements to draw down money and stick for their stakeholders. They

have continually paid out dividends to their shareholders and to the point now

where their company is uninvestable. That's why they can't find the money for

this in order to get anybody in. So I think they're really the only other way

that we can move forward is to re -nationalise our water and to re -nationalise this company

because it is so important. It is important for human life, it's important for all our

biodiversity and it just makes our places nice places to live. So I will absolutely

be supporting this motion. I think it is the right thing to do. It is unfortunate that

Chair - 2:05:12

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 2:05:16

we have got to this place but we are where we are with that so I fully support it. Thank

Thank you.

Councillor Tuck, Julian.

Chair - 2:05:21

Thank you.

Cllr Julian Tooke - 2:05:24

The amendment to the motion may have not been very clear.

So the amendment that we made said,

called for nationalisation and supported

very much the Green Party position,

but also stated the broader liberal Democrat position,

which is these companies should be public benefit companies.

So that's the alternative in there as well.

So just to be clear to reform, public benefit companies are not nationalised companies,

they are private companies, but they are recognising the fact that these companies have a very

special responsibility because they are monopolies, we can't go anywhere else, and because they

have a real responsibility in terms of the environment and so on.

So public benefit companies are about profit, yes, but more importantly in this context

They're about people and planet.

So I fully support the green motion.

I also support the idea of public benefit companies.

And much like reform, the idea of nationalisation

does slightly stick in my throat,

because I think this is a mess created

by conservative governments.

Why the hell should we be bailing them out?

I really don't like that.

But the public benefit company gives you an alternative,

whereby you make these companies behave in a responsible way. So I hope reform

could rethink their position on that basis. Thank you Julian.

Chair - 2:06:51

Cllr Joe Harris - 2:06:54

Councillor Harris, Joe. Thank you. Well I rise to speak Chairman because quite

frankly, I won't say the word, we are up a creek without a paddle. We really really

are and Thames Water are the one doing the paddling. In Syrinsister we are

very, very proud of our Roman heritage, of our aqueducts, clean water and our Roman baths.

And the Romans knew how to build systems that served people.

What about Thames Water?

They're building a legacy of leaks, of debt and of discharge.

We have the beautiful River Cherne running through Syr ancestor.

What's being churned is public trust, quite frankly.

This company is dumping sewage into our waterways and what's happening is they're flushing away the money meant to fix it.

And here's the real kicker. While rivers have been choking in pollution, customers have seen their bills rise.

Thames Water have handed out over £200 million in dividends and executive bonuses in recent years.

It's not a trickle of cash, it's an absolute flood of money.

And if you ever needed proof that the system is broken, there it is.

Lavish bonuses for failure.

Pollution as a standard and the public holding the plunger.

It's completely unfair.

We know how hard things are for many residents in Syrinsester and across Gloucestershire

and they're paying a lot more in their bills for less.

All the while, executives at Thames Water collect golden handshakes and run the company into the ground.

They've turned our water system into a gravy boat and it's sailing straight through a sewage slick.

This motion calls for something that's long overdue and Chloe, thank you so much for bringing it.

I know there's a lot of common cause here. Public scrutiny, democratic oversight and a serious look at bringing water back where it belongs in public hands for the public good.

Now a few years ago, you might remember, I coined a term, Stool Britannia.

And unfortunately, doesn't that sum the current situation up in this country?

And to be honest, that is not an anthem that I want when I eventually have children, them

growing up with.

I'm tired of watching our local rivers pumped full of sewage while private executives get

away with it.

Let's vote for this motion and the amendment.

Let's pull the chain on this sewage sewage soap system. Thank you

Thank you Joe

Chair - 2:09:31

Councillor forward mark Martin

Cllr Martin Horwood - 2:09:32

Thank you. Thank you chair. Um

Yes the situation in Gloucestershire

In which we'd love to engage indulgence and some wild swimming like Councillor Spivey

But it's not so much swallows and Amazon's as don't swallow under any circumstances whatsoever

and I think I'm

I'm really impressed by this motion and I think I'd like to talk just to the bit

that talks about ownership models and then a bit of a reply to our reform

colleagues. Every time you come to Cheltenham and shop in John Lewis you

are shopping in a worker -owned company. Every time you open an account in the

nationwide building society you're talking you're working in a non -profit

member -owned company. Every time you shop in the co -op you are buying products

which literally are what they say on the can.

And if you go around the corner and shop in an Oxfam shop

and buy from Oxfam trading,

you're in a highly business -like and commercial operation,

which I used to be involved in,

but which is non -profit and done for public benefit.

So different ownership models are available.

And we've talked about,

and Councillor Took and Councillor Hodgkinson

talked about some of the options

that Liberal Democrats advocate,

but the nationalisation and the complete public ownership is possible as well.

And in the three cases of Berlin, Paris and Stockholm,

I don't think it's entirely accurate to say they're all elected boards actually.

So Berlin, a vast retriever, includes private investors on the board,

but it has local representatives and workers represented.

The Stockholm Vatten is entirely owned by the municipality,

who appoint its board and include representatives of the community and

eau de Paris which sounds rather like a fragrance and is presumably making the

water more and more fragrant is perhaps the closest to the exact model and does

include elected representatives but also includes things like environmental

organisations on the board which is a really important idea. So there just are

far more options available and viable successful options demonstrated in

different companies and different organisations and enterprises in this

country but certainly in different water companies around the world and I think

we need to embrace that possibility because the current business model that

Chair - 2:11:53

has led to our current situation is quite clearly broken. Thank you, thank you

Councillor Howard. I can't see anybody else we should speak, I'm sorry David.

Cllr David Willingham - 2:12:02

Thank you Chair, I just wanted to make one other point to extend what Councillor

Tuke said about Thames being a monopoly. If you look at a map of the UK water

companies what you will find is they're not just monopolies but they are

monopolies that have to be based on the hydrology and the geology of the area

because water flows downhill. So the the water catchment areas

which those on local flood, those that have an interest in flooding will be

aware of, is what sets the boundaries of the water companies. And I think it's

important to remember these are monopolies bounded by the hydrology and

the geography of the country and you don't have a choice where your water

comes from. You don't really have a choice with it where your electricity

comes from but you change who the billing provider is and what have you.

But in the case of water you're not pumping the water up and over the hills

you have a monopoly you cannot switch from it and if you learn anything from

history where you have private monopolies with inadequate oversight

you will get corporate entities taking advantage of this. Just look at what

happened with Railtrack. Railtrack was terminated because they compromised

public safety for profit and that's why we now have networked rail which is again

it's run not for profit because if you run it for profit you will put some

profit first and the public, public safety, the environment and everything

else will come second and that's why it's really really important that this

isn't allowed or Thames Water and the rest of the water companies aren't allowed to

remain as for -profits. They need a different model. Thank you.

Chair - 2:14:14

Cllr Kate Usmar - 2:14:21

Thank you David. Thank you. We've been talking today about Thames Water. The whole of

constituency is actually covered by 7 Trent. We're not going to cover them in

this motion but we will be discussing them in scrutiny. 7 Trent boss made

3 .3 million last year. 7 Trent discharge 11 ,123 hours worth of raw sewage into the rivers.

Chokesbury is on the point where the Avon and the 7 join. We depend on our

rivers for our tourism for our livelihood and so we will ask for seven

Chair - 2:15:03

trends to answer questions as well in scrutiny thank you thank you I don't see

any further questions so over to Councillor Turner Chloe to sum up thank

Cllr Chloe Turner - 2:15:11

you really grateful for everyone's comments super to have national reforms

support I didn't want to overload the motion with loads of academic references

but there were a few footnotes to it which set out some of the detail on the

cost of nationalisation. There is a lot of material available from Dieter Helm

who I mentioned, also from Professor Ewan McOrkey who's at King's College and

and a lot of other reports out there but apologies for not including that

perhaps as fully as you might have wanted. Really helpful to have the

clarification about Glascunry and their relatively positive performance

Given their different model and and Steven. I'm sorry that you don't like letters

I'll green MPs tell us that they find it really powerful actually when a council has taken the trouble to

Formalise their view on something and provide it to MPs so that they can take it forward in Parliament

So that's why we're seeking to to take this route

But in summary, you know water needs to be in public hands and I would urge you to support this motion. Thank you

Chair - 2:16:16

Thank you then so we will now go to the vote so all those in favour of the motion, please raise your hands

Okay, yep those against

Chair - 2:16:34

Okay. And those who are neither against or for, please. Those, thank you.

Chair - 2:16:52

Okay. So the motion is carried. Okay. It's been suggested to me that we break for lunch.

Our food is ready and we don't want to eat our sandwiches when they've all turned up,

So, we will break for lunch and if we could come back at 12 .45, please, because we still

have quite a lot to do.

Thank you.

12 .45.

Chair - 2:17:18

Good.

Start the meeting, please.

Thank you.

People could take their seats.

Thank you.

Right, then we move forward. We're going on now with Motion 960.

Proposer, Councillor Vernon Smith, seconder, Councillor Chris Mayo.

Chair - 2:17:49

Vernon, would you like to speak?

Cllr Vernon Smith - 2:17:51

Yes, thank you, Chair. Yes, thank you, Council.

Gloucester County Council and TBC have had an agreement for 30 years of GCC finance and

equipment and crews from TBC and I have to say in the past they've done a fantastic

job, it looks great working together collaboratively.

But unfortunately TBC have decided not to cut the grass on behalf of GCC anymore.

Whilst I fully understand the need for biodiversity, I strongly feel that it should not be to the

detriment of Chucksbridge's tourism or the revenue this brings in for the local community

or to the loss of local residents' civic pride.

All other district councils collaboratively work with GCC to keep their areas tidy.

Other areas such as Stroud and Chanten practise Nomome, but they have done grass cut before

this starts. TBC did not this year. Indeed Stroud aims to cut its grass every four weeks

between March and October, leaving some areas uncut in May. Cheltenham aims to do 15 grass

cuts a year. It pays for five and GCC paid for 10. Collaborative working, brilliant.

Gloucester City aims to cut the grass every 20 days. The Cotswolds operate a 14 -day roll -in

all working together and that's what this motion is asking, to work together.

Many of these areas, Gloucester City, Cheltenham Borough and Cottlewood District all have use

of a glysophate herbicide on a yearly basis, spraying around street furniture, curbs, benches,

etc.

Unfortunately, none of this has happened again in Chippsbury.

Leaving the area is very scruffy with some structures.

We just had the mediaeval festival and well please what I'm asking in this motion I ask

the council that it asks Chixbury Borough to return to collaborative work in with GCC

that it does a grass cut before the start of No Mo May and it also allows the use of

around street furniture, gullies, curbs, etc., that we can return to a common sense policy

to balance biodiversity and civic pride.

So I would like to ask members to support this motion.

Thank you.

Chair - 2:20:19

Thank you very much.

Councillor Mayo, did you want to speak now?

Yes, please, Chair.

Cllr Vernon Smith - 2:20:30

The reason I seconded this all Sunday, I'm sorry

Points is a

Rolling programme and grass cutter and weed control will ensure to be looks clean well kept and welcome him to residents and tourists

as a host of Europe's largest mid free mediaeval and

enactment maintaining towns appearance

Cllr Chris Mayo - 2:20:56

Can enhance visitor experience and support local business

Well maintained public spaces foster a sense of pride and community ownership amongst the residents

Chair - 2:21:14

Cates for Stanley Richard

Cllr Richard Stanley - 2:21:17

Thank You chair, let me clear this up as leader of Chute's Brevara Council

I'm always happy to shout about how fantastic

Chutesbury is and I fully accept that there is an issue with regards to the grass cutting that needs action

I can confirm that Councillor Spivey and I are already working together on this. We didn't need a motion. We just picked up the phone

Frankly, this motion feels more like political posturing on an issue that's being dealt with rather than problem -solving

Had Councillor Smith contacted me

he'd know I've already raised this both with the current leader of the council and the

Previous county leader officers from across the borough and county are actively working to fix this situation

If Councillor Smith had asked me I could have also let him know that I've set set up

I've already set out at the borough executive meeting that the borough councillors want to see options on additional cuts and

Reports will be coming to the council this month and a long -term solution is due in the autumn

The irony is that Councillor Smith is criticising a grass cutting policy that he backed as the former conservative cabinet member

for highways the two cuts a year policy model his policy as a conservative he

voted for it and now he's shocked it delivers what it was designed to do this

motion asks the borough to spend council taxpayers money that's also needed for

important priorities such as housing and homelessness and supporting our

communities to cover cuts on County Council land that Councillor Smith chose

not to fund when he was in power frankly it's bit rich now I will just add that

Councillor Smith did come to me in the middle of the debate earlier with his own proposals now welcome working with you Councillor Smith

But the use of public funds needs to be discussed properly and decisions made by the council with approval not just on the hoof

This motion isn't needed council council at least five in I were already working together

But Councillor Smith next time if you want to know what's happening just contact me. Thank you

Chair - 2:23:10

Thank you very much

I appreciate it.

Councillor Alistair Chambers.

Cllr Richard Stanley - 2:23:17

Thank you, Chair.

I was really excited when reform were coming into this council, I was looking at their

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 2:23:28

manifesto of freezing non -essential immigration, fantastic, banned transgender ideology, an

extra 17 billion for NHS.

Eagerly I opened up the motions to see what was there and I saw grass cutting in Tewkesbury.

Yeah, that was my feeling.

So chair colleagues are right today not to support this motion, but to challenge the very premise in which it's been brought to the chamber

Let's take a step back for a moment. This council meets just six times a year. That's once every two months

That's six opportunities to get this council right to get Gloucestershire right to get it safe

About six meetings to bring forward serious issues that impact the lives of hundreds of thousands of people across Gloucestershire

And what colleagues do worthy of the precious time and attention today grass -cutting?

Chair, we are the County Council.

Our core responsibilities are no small matter.

We're entrusted with safeguarding the most vulnerable, overseeing adult social care,

children's services, child protection, adoption, fostering, the fire service, road safety,

public highways and public health.

In the time when the pressure is on social care is mounting, we've seen the report today,

children missing from school, children, high vulnerable children disappearing.

We're here to discuss grass cutting.

There's children slipping through the cracks, pressure on social care, the roads are crumbling,

mental health services are overstretched.

Let's be absolutely clear, cutting the grass is not even a county council function.

It is and has always been the responsibility of district councils and in this case,

the Chutesbury Borough Council.

So why are we wasting the time with a strategic authority whose remake covers life -saving,

life -changing and talk about lawn mowers and vergers?

This isn't an error in prioritisation, it's an embarrassment.

It sends the wrong message to the public, a message that this council is more concerned

with optics than outcomes, more interested in superficial appearances and serious governance.

Chair, we have children in our council facing crisis.

We have elderly residents who cannot access vital support.

We have vulnerable families relying on us to get it right.

And yet this motion says the biggest issue we face is whether or not somebody has cut

the verges.

Let me be blunt.

This isn't what we're elected to do.

This isn't what leadership looks like.

And this isn't why we sit in this chamber.

To those who brought this motion, may I say with the greatest respect, next time, let's

bring something of substance.

Let's bring something that helps a child.

Let's bring something that supports a carer.

Let's bring something that saves a life.

Let's bring something that builds a future.

Because until then, all this motion does is prove that we're more concerned with

turf wars than real issues.

And on that note, I appreciate that probably people just, I think we've got much more

important motions to discuss.

So I'd like to ask Point of Order to move to the vote, section 11 .1 .10, that the question be put.

I hope you can all agree, because we've got adult social care and some other stuff coming up that's really important.

Thank you.

Chair - 2:26:13

Thank you, Alistair. Do you have a seconder for yours, please?

You do? Right, thank you.

Chair - 2:26:40

I will let Alistair get the opportunity to speak now on your amendment.

And then Vernon.

On the request.

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 2:26:51

I'm misunderstanding.

All I want to do is move on to the next motion.

If I can just say that, that's it.

Okay.

And then Vernon needs to respond.

Chair - 2:27:00

Yeah, Vernon, you need to respond.

Cllr Vernon Smith - 2:27:05

Yeah, do I sum up or do I sum up?

Chair - 2:27:06

No, I'm happy to go the vote.

That's good.

Okay.

Cllr Vernon Smith - 2:27:09

Chair - 2:27:10

So, do I sum up?

Cheque, cheque, can I sum up?

Excuse me, just one second.

Can I sum up then?

Cllr Vernon Smith - 2:27:18

Chair - 2:27:19

Yes, before we go to the vote.

Thank you, thank you.

Yes, thank you.

And thank you for that lesson.

I do appreciate it being put in my place.

I do appreciate it very much.

Cllr Vernon Smith - 2:27:37

So, yes, obviously collaborative working is not quite happening.

Let's go to the vote.

We will be asking for a recorded vote because I do believe that we, Reform, are asking for

collaborative working.

And what I see is all the emails from residents of Chuxbury that we've been asking for,

go into TVC regularly, including myself going in there to ask about can we work together.

I think this is about collaborative working and getting something important done.

But I also see that we have other motions.

So let's go to the vote.

I'm asking for a recorded vote, Chair.

Chair - 2:28:14

Thank you, Verna.

Cllr Vernon Smith - 2:28:15

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 2:28:16

Chair - 2:28:17

Sorry, Chair.

Excuse me just a second.

Could we just have clarification on exactly what we're voting on right now?

I'm told we are voting on the motion

Vernon's motion

Okay

We need 10

Not we need 10

Councillors to request the recorded vote

Cllr Richard Stanley - 2:28:41

Can I raise a point of order

Chair - 2:28:44

Cllr Richard Stanley - 2:28:45

So we're doing a motion to say that myself and the leader communicate together on something

We're already communicating together on and there's already a paper going to Chukesboro borough council on this exact issue

So that's the first question secondly Councillor Smith says he's gone into Chukesboro borough to discuss this with who and when

Because he certainly hasn't been in to discuss it with me or with the chief executive of the council or anything

presumably any of the

Senior officers at Chukesbury so intrigued on that one. Thank you

Chair - 2:29:15

Thank you. If you could just hold fire just for a moment

I'll get some advice.

Thank you.

Chair - 2:29:36

Excuse me.

Vernon, would you like to respond to the last speaker?

Cllr Vernon Smith - 2:29:44

No, let's go to the vote, please, Chair.

Chair - 2:29:50

Okay, so can we go to the vote and you wish to have a recorded vote?

Yeah, we've got 10.

Yeah, okay. So please can all those in favour of the motion?

No, we need to roll call.

Roll call, sorry. Put your hands down folks.

Democratic Services - 2:30:08

Thank you, Chair. I'm happy to go for a recorded vote.

So what I will do is I will read out your name and you need to tell me whether you are for, against or you abstain with the motion.

Okay, so four in favour, against it, or abstain.

So I'm going to read out your name.

So, Glenn Andrews.

Against.

Dean Botterill.

For.

Ashley Boca.

Against.

Angie Boyes.

Against.

Tom Bradley.

Abstain.

Ian Cameron.

Against.

Piers Camp.

For.

Cllr Ian Cameron - 2:30:47

Cllr Piers Camp - 2:30:48

For.

Cllr Leigh Challis - 2:30:51

Democratic Services - 2:30:53

Alistair Chambers.

Against.

Linda Cohen.

Against.

Daryl Corpse.

Abstain.

Stephen Davis.

Abstain.

Ian Dobie.

Against.

Cllr Cheryl Agg - 2:31:08

Cllr Iain Dobie - 2:31:09

Democratic Services - 2:31:10

Ray Donahue.

For.

Stuart Dove.

Against.

Ben Evans.

Against.

Stuart Graham.

For.

Andrew Gravels.

For.

Vernon Grey.

For.

Sarah Hans.

Against.

Joe Harris against Mark Harris against Colin Hay

Alex Hegenbaugh against Jeremy Hilton against Paul Hodgkinson against Craig

Horrocks.

Against.

Martin Horward.

Mark Howard.

For.

Becky Hoyland.

Against.

Chris Mayer.

For.

Chris McFarlane.

Against.

Don Morris.

Jill Moseley.

Against.

Saj Patel.

John Patien.

Against.

Jason Priest.

Mike Rees.

For.

Steve Robinson.

Against.

Chair - 2:32:49

Democratic Services - 2:32:50

Sarah Sawyer.

Against.

Vernon Smith.

For.

Sarah, can you turn off your microphone?

Is that okay?

Thank you.

Lisa Spivey.

Again.

Richard Stanley.

Against.

Julian Tuck.

Again.

Rebecca Trimnell.

Against.

Chloe Turner.

Against.

Kate Usmar.

Against.

Ian Watson.

Against.

Roger Wiesman.

Wyborn again Suzanne Williams David Willingham against thank you very much

Chair - 2:33:40

okay thank you so that's 11 for 34 against six extensions thank you so that

motion has failed thank you so if we move on to the next motion 961 I

I understand there's a friendly amendment here. Am I correct with that?

Cllr Piers Camp - 2:34:08

Yes, yes, are you happy with the friendly amendment on the extra flagpole? Yes

Chair - 2:34:14

Yes, it's up there

Cllr Piers Camp - 2:34:17

Chair - 2:34:23

Would you like to speak on that?

Cllr Piers Camp - 2:34:27

Piers, sorry.

Thank you.

Today I raise a motion for a simple yet powerful idea.

The public buildings across Gloucestershire should proudly fly both the Union flag and

the St George's Cross throughout the month of April.

This proposal is not merely about flags, it is about embracing our shared identity, celebrating

our heritage and fostering a sense of unity in diversity.

Firstly, let's consider the significance of the union flag.

It symbolises the unity of our four nations,

England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.

It represents our collective history, our shared struggles,

and our triumphs as a nation.

In contrast, the St. George's Cross is a symbol of England itself,

steeped in centuries of history and tradition.

By flying both flags together, we acknowledge the rich tapestry

of our nation recognising that while we have our regional identities, we are ultimately

part of the greater whole.

April, as many of you know, is a month of celebration.

It is the month of St. George's Day, which falls on the 23rd.

This day is an opportunity for the people of Gloucestershire and England to celebrate

their patron saint and reflect on what it means to be English.

By flying the St. George's Cross alongside the Union Flag, during this month we not only

honour our English heritage, but also invite conversations about national pride, identity

and what it means to be part of this diverse union.

Furthermore, in today's world, where division often seems to overshadow unity, it is crucial

to promote symbols that bring us together rather than tear us apart.

Flying both flights sends a message that we are proud of our English roots while also

celebrating our place within the broader UK family.

It is a reminder that our strength lies in our unity and that we can celebrate our unique

identities without diminishing the identities of others.

Moreover, let us not forget the importance of local pride.

Each region has its own traditions, cultures and histories that contribute to the vibrant

mosaic of the UK.

By showcasing both flags, we encourage local communities to take pride in their heritage

while also fostering a sense of belonging to the larger national narrative.

It can serve as a catalyst for community events, educational programmes, and local festivals

that celebrate both English and British culture.

In conclusion, I urge you to consider the benefits that flying both the Union Flag and

the St. George's Cross during April can bring.

It is more than just flags, it is about unity, identity, and pride.

By adopting this practise, we can create a stronger sense of community, foster national

pride, and celebrate the diversity that makes our nation great.

Let us come together under these two flags,

standing side by side, and show the world that we are

proud of who we are, both as English citizens and as

members of the United Kingdom.

Thank you.

Chair - 2:37:11

Thank you very much.

I'll take that one now.

Ray, did you wish to speak now?

Cllr Ray Donaghue - 2:37:22

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Piers, and thank you

for the hands of us here.

I think this is a great motion, and it's an

opportunity for all of us to show some genuine

appreciation for the flag of the country we inhabit and represent.

For too long, some have often given more importance and concern for other flags and causes.

While we may vary in our passions and priorities, I believe we need to return to showing the

greatest pride in our own flag, identity and values.

No flag should have greater importance than the national flag of our country.

I cannot think of any more countries, and therefore our flag, that should be deemed

more inclusive or intolerant as ours.

Chair - 2:38:02

Thank you.

I understand, Alistair, you have an amendment.

Cllr Jeremy Hilton - 2:38:11

Sorry, Chair, I've got an amendment to speak on this one.

Chair - 2:38:15

That was put in before Alistair's in.

I put in a few days ago.

To be called in order.

Chair - 2:38:23

Can you just take your voice on that please, Jeremy?

Monitoring Officer - 2:38:40

So Jeremy, because it was a friendly amendment that was already accepted, that has already

become the substantive motion.

You can speak on it, but you don't need to formally move the amendment because it's been

accepted as friendly.

Cllr Jeremy Hilton - 2:38:51

Well, I'd like to speak on it just to explain it.

Okay?

Thank you, Chair.

Chair - 2:38:59

Cllr Jeremy Hilton - 2:39:00

Um, okay just to thank the members and the secondary of the motion and I think it's it is important that we do fly flags

shahal

the amendment actually says that the

St. George's cross flag should be only flown on the 23rd of April

And that we also look whether we can have an extra flagpole or flagpoles

we only have one flagpole at Shire Hall, which means only one flag can be flown.

And I think it's important that the Union flag takes president and it should be flown every day of the year.

Therefore, at the moment, unless we get a second flagpole, we're taking it down for one day in favour of the English flag.

And I think that's important.

I've toured around Europe many places and you go to many cities and you see the civic buildings.

Usually they have a local flag on it. They have the national flag on it

And they have the European Union flag on it if the members of the European Union and I think it's important

With Shah or is an iconic building in West Gate Street

It's near to the Cathedral and we should be proud of this building and we should make it clear

This is the Civic Centre of Gloucestershire County Council. And therefore if we had

had three flag poles, if we could get them up there, then we could fly the English flag,

the Gloucestershire flag and the Union flag.

And we could take one of them down if there's a special occasion.

At the North Warehouse we take down, we have the Ukraine flag flying in solidarity.

We take that down, we took it down for the armed forces date and put the other one up.

We then took the armed forces flag down and put the Ukraine flag back up because in Gloucester

City we're standing in solidarity with the nation of Ukraine until the Russians leave

I think we need to do better and the way we dress this councils of

Frontage it was a shame that Stephen Davis thought it was appropriate to put grotty wooden hoardings outside

shahaw for month after month after month

When no work was being done under the pretence that they were doing things to the set to the shahaw reception. Nothing ever happened

Thankfully, the Lib Dem administration got rid of that awful hoarding and it looks so much better in Westgate Street now.

So if we can find a way of flying at least two or three flags, that will help.

It will also mean that the English flag might be able to be flown more often than the

opposers were asking for. At the moment, the union flag must take precedence.

So therefore, if we don't have another flagpole, then we need to just say 23rd of April.

That's what the amendment is suggesting.

But we are asking the cabinet or the administration to look at ways and means in which we can

accommodate more flags on the frontage of Shah Hall.

Thank you, Jeremy.

Chair - 2:41:53

So we're back to Alastair.

Alastair, do you have a seconder for your amendment?

I do, Chair.

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 2:41:57

You do?

Right, thank you.

Chair - 2:42:02

So I think we need to have a short recess to look into this.

Okay, thank you.

Monitoring Officer - 2:42:08

I'm going to suggest that as Alice's amendment was to the original motion. He hasn't had a chance to consider the

Friendly amendment has already been accepted. We take a five minute recess just so we can pull the two together

Share those with members and then you're very clear what you're discussing and voting on

Chair - 2:42:34

Okay, is everybody

Thank you. I think Rob will explain where we're at. Thank you Rob.

Monitoring Officer - 2:42:51

Anybody would like a diagram please let me know. So just to recap where we're at then.

So we had a friendly amendment for the lived ends that was accepted by the proposal of the motion.

We then had a further amendment

by councillor chambers

Which has also been accepted as friendly by the proposer. So the substantive motion becomes

The motion as amended by Alistair, which is on your screens

now for those who

Who just want to take a moment to read it?

So this is now a substantive motion that we'll be debating and putting to the vote

Chair - 2:43:55

I would just really like to move on because we have our guests joining us later.

So Alastair, did you want to add anything now before I open it up to the floor?

No, no, it's fine.

Let's crack on.

Right.

Thank you.

Right.

Would anybody like to speak on the amendment?

Chloe and then Stephen.

Thank you.

Just very briefly, I just wanted to say I'm sure members are aware that St George was

the son of a Turkish father and a Palestinian mother and I just think it's lovely that we're choosing to fly this flag if

This motion goes ahead

Cllr Chloe Turner - 2:44:40

Cllr Chloe Turner - 2:44:50

If I could just finish

Chair - 2:44:53

Cllr Chloe Turner - 2:44:56

Just saying that's a way of celebrate burning. Can you just please as a way of celebrating diversity in Gloucestershire?

Thank you

Chair - 2:45:03

Like Councillor Stephen Davis

Okay

Cllr Stephen Davies - 2:45:09

Can I just start by correcting Jeremy?

I would have done so at the time but no people don't believe what he says

Anyway, the hoardings were put up for perfectly good reason and they came down in a scheduled manner

as planned and that was just nonsense.

But anyway, on the topic of nonsense,

here we have it, the first reform motion

probably to get passed actually incurs cost.

There they were on every leaflet saying we waste money

and we have just incurred the cost of two more flag poles

and more importantly, somebody will have to raise the flag

and lower the flag every single day.

We have wasted a huge amount of time discussing this

and I promise you, leave this building,

Stand outside Shire Hall and ask people if they know we have a flagpole and we all know what the answer is

So we have wasted time on symbolism, which I'm not that fussed about

I did pick up on the fact that they like the Union except we have reform candidates who are in favour of Scottish independence

Please explain that one to me

So having heard all of this nonsense

I'm going just abstain because I'm just not gonna take part

Chair - 2:46:15

Thank You

Kate's liver and Smith

Cllr Vernon Smith - 2:46:23

Thank You chair just to point out in his Greek it's actually

Factually, sorry, I could give you all the details where when and all that but we're wasting time. So let's go to the vote, please

Chair - 2:46:33

Council Jerry Hill I

just want

Cllr Jeremy Hilton - 2:46:36

respond to Steven days Davis's

Attack on me from but pointing out that in October of last year

buildings, buildings, buildings,

buildings, buildings, buildings, buildings,

buildings, buildings, buildings, buildings, buildings.

And they stayed there until well after the local government

elections and until after the annual council meeting here.

And they were put up to carry out essential maintenance works.

All I know and a question I got back from the administration at

the time, it was to steam clean the floor and to repair the

than Stephen Davis did. I never saw anybody working there and thankfully the new administration got

rid of that blimmin' eyesore outside of Shirehall on election. If not it'll be there for months and

months under the Tories as it was for months and months beforehand. The hoardings were a disgrace

and they we know the reason why they were put up and they were not put up for any maintenance.

Chair - 2:47:40

Okay thank you. Right do we have anybody else that wishes to speak please?

Second.

Cllr Sajid Patel - 2:47:48

Thank you, Mr Chairman.

It's worth pointing out that this council already buys the flag of St George on the

23rd of April.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

This motion talks about recognising English culture, history and tolerance.

Yeah, absolutely.

We wouldn't agree with that.

We all do.

Please have a look around this chamber.

out of 55 councillors here, how many do we see are from ethnic minorities?

Just myself I think.

And this therefore is not a true representation of our communities.

But I am hopeful that one day there will be more councillors in this chamber,

just like we have so many more women in this chamber now as well,

which is great to see.

One day we'll have more people from more diverse communities

representing the people of this county.

And believe it or not, from someone who was born and raised in England,

like me, the vast majority of people from ethnic minorities,

immigrants, Muslims, Ukrainians, Eastern Europeans,

wherever they're from, Afghanistan, no matter where they're from,

I don't think people get offended by the St. George's flag.

There's this misconception, absolute misconception and misinformation

That fuels fire to sue the scaremongering, right -wing, divisive rhetoric, particularly on social media.

I often see comments like, oh, if they don't like flying off flag, they can so and so back to their country.

It's disgrace, absolutely disgraceful, and it's not even true. I'm not offended by it.

Hence, I'm supporting the motion, seconding the motion that Alistair has brought to the council today, the amendment.

And I'm happy to put on record that I welcome people to fly any flags as long as they are not illegal.

Let's just put that on record here.

Whether that's a Union Jack, the St Georges flag, the Ukrainian flag, the Palestine flag, whatever it is.

As long as it's legal, got no problem with it.

And let's not forget, I'm just touching on Palestine, there's a genocide happening right here,

right at this moment in time where children are being killed, are being murdered

while they're queuing up for food and water.

It's an absolute disgrace.

Perhaps a motion of such nature would be better than something of a motion that we're already doing,

this council's already doing.

It's an absolute waste of time.

But anyway, moving on.

Do I class myself as patriotic?

Yes, 100%.

However, I am not English, I'm British.

Most people here won't class me as English because of the colour of my skin. That's the only reason.

And I'm proud to say that I'm a proud British Muslim resident and a counsellor doing my best for my city, my county and my country.

Chair - 2:50:53

I organised the late Queen's Jubilee Celebration Party in June 2002 that was attended by over a thousand residents from wide ranging diversity.

Wind up now please.

Cllr Sajid Patel - 2:50:57

And doing so much more tackling antisocial issues etc. etc.

Chair - 2:51:05

We pay our taxes, we contribute to society and I think that's what patriotism is about.

Roger, you're well over time. Please.

Cllr Sajid Patel - 2:51:12

Please support the motion, it's a very important motion, please support it.

Let's see that flag proudly flying high all year round. Thank you very much.

Chair - 2:51:19

Thank you.

Right, Councillor Spivey, Lisa.

Yeah, thank you very much.

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 2:51:27

And yeah, I love flags and in fact I introduced bringing these gorgeous flags into the Chamber.

So, you know, absolutely brilliant but I think that, you know, the most important thing there,

and I think it was Councillor Patel that said that really what we wanted to do is serving our communities and being part of something.

So I put that we've moved to the vote on this and we don't spend any more time talking about flags,

much as they are absolutely fabulous and I would fly them everywhere that we

could possibly but actually I'd much rather get on to talking about the

motions around adoptive children and how we can support those families and knife

crime which I think are the really really important issues here. Let's not

get dragged into wasting time talking about lovely flags when we actually have

got really important things to talk about. Thank you.

Thank you.

Chair - 2:52:10

If there's nobody else, then I'll go back to Piers for his first motion.

Thank you.

Cllr Piers Camp - 2:52:18

It sounds like we've got general support in the room.

It is great.

I just want to echo some of the thoughts where I felt really proud as a child carrying the

flag for the Scouts on St. George's Day, and I want other people to feel that as well.

So the more flags everywhere that represent our culture and community, the better.

Thank you.

Can I have a recorded vote, please?

Chair - 2:52:41

Do you have others that agree to a recorded vote?

OK.

Right.

Thank you.

Over to you, Stephen.

Democratic Services - 2:52:59

As before, I'm going to call out your name and then it's for, against or abstain.

Glenn Andrews.

For.

Dean Botterill.

For.

Ashley Boquette. Four. Angie Boyes. Four. Tom Bradley. Four. Ian Cameron. Four.

Piers Camp. Four. Lee Chalice. Four. Alistair Chambers. Four. Linda Cohen. Four.

for.

Stephen Davis.

Ian Doby.

Ray Donahue.

Ben Evans.

Andrew Gravels.

Vernon Grey.

Sarah Hans

Joe Harris

Mark Harris

Colin Hay

Alex Hegenbach

Jeremy Hilton

Paul Hodgkinson

Craig Horrocks

Martin Horwood

Mark Howard. Becky Hoyland. Chris Mayer. Chris McFarland. Don Morris. Jill Moseley.

For.

Saj Patel.

John Patien.

For.

Jason Priest.

Mike Reese.

For.

Steve Robinson.

For.

Chair - 2:55:12

Democratic Services - 2:55:14

Sarah Sawyer.

For.

Vernon Smith.

Lisa Spivey.

Richard Stanley.

For.

Julian Took.

4. Rebecca Trimnell. 4. Chloe Turner. 4. Kate Usmar. 4. Ian Watson. 4. Roger Wyborn. 4. Suzanne Williams. 4. David Willingham. 4.

49 for two extensions

Chair - 2:55:55

Thank you

right going on to

Probably be our final motion today

Motion 962 the pose of Michael Reeves counsellor and Councillor Vernon grey

counsellor ease

Thank you

Cllr Michael Rees - 2:56:12

Thank you

Today I bring forth the motion to

stop the roll out of 20 mile per hour speed limits around the county.

The reason for this is it's currently costing this council predicted about one and a half

million pounds for this year and the reasons provided are for safety concerns and for the

environmental impact.

However, in a study cited by the RAC, reducing the speed limits only affects average speed

by 0 .2 miles per hour in the first year and 0 .8 in the third year, as well as also having

a statistically negligible impact on road traffic collisions and casualty rates.

Having these 20 mile per hour speed limits also has a negative effect on the vehicle's

emissions.

Running at 20 miles per hour causes the cars to end up driving in a lower gear, causing

them to be at a higher revs using more fuel and causing the emissions to increase.

Especially with older manual cars, this is a major issue and that is what most people

drive nowadays.

In order to, when with the money saved with this motion, the money should be put towards

roads infrastructure.

The roads are currently in such a poor condition that it is the most complained issue I found

from constituents and therefore all money I believe should be put towards the roads

and the infrastructure around them.

The administration party is also in their campaign stated that the road quality will

be addressed and since then have gone on record as to say that the potholes will increase

as they have directed funding towards adult social care.

For this reason, I believe that we should freeze

those 20 mile per hour speed limits

and redirect this funding towards

the infrastructure of our roads.

Thank you, Chair.

Chair - 2:58:23

Thank you, Councillor Rees.

Cllr Michael Rees - 2:58:28

Sorry, Chair, a point of order, if I may.

Just looking at the agenda,

there was a motion put up there on the screen,

which is different from motion 962

that we are debating at the moment, is that correct?

Cllr David Willingham - 2:58:43

Because what was described there by the proposer

was talking about freezing the 20 mile an hour

as well actually the motion here is talking about

freeze all speed limits,

which is a substantially different element.

If I just get some clarification on that please.

So myself, Vernon, I had agreed with Robert Alip

Cllr Michael Rees - 2:59:03

The contents of the motion should be changed

Cllr David Willingham - 2:59:10

So again just another clarification as far as I'm aware, I don't think anyone else was made aware of this I

Chair - 2:59:21

Certainly haven't had an email in my inbox to say that this motion has been changed. So I don't know

Monitoring Officer - 2:59:26

Yeah, so just to clarify that the proposal emotion can amend it at any stage during the process

We will put it on the screen now so that you are clear about it

If members would like that email put to them as well, then I'm sure we can do that

But given it's very short. I'm not sure that's necessary

Right, so

Chair - 2:59:42

councillor

Vernon grey, did you wish to speak now or later?

Cllr Vernon Gray - 2:59:51

I'll just speak speak quickly if I may. Thank you chair

I just wanted to point out that I believe a similar scheme was carried out in Wales

And after the Welsh government reviewed that scheme, they did roll it back in various places

in Wales.

So I would like councillors and members to be mindful of that.

I think they did that in Wrexham particularly.

And the final point I would like to make is to do with these enforcement cameras that

used.

Some local authorities have saved money by not actually maintaining them or processing

the data that they're collecting.

So I just think that's a point worth making.

And I'd like to endorse what my colleague has said here.

Thank you.

Chair - 3:00:53

Thank you very much, Councillor Grey. Councillor Joel Harris.

Cllr Joe Harris - 3:00:58

Brilliant, thank you, Chair, and congratulations Michael and to colleagues on your first Council

meeting and making your maiden speeches. We're very clear, we made a very, very clear

manifesto commitment as part of the local elections to introduce 20 mile an hour zones

where residents want them.

And that is what we aim to deliver on

over the next few years.

And let me stress, let me stress,

for many years, communities across Gloucestershire

have been crying out for 20 mile an hour zones.

They really, really have.

And we're very clear as well that we want to do this

in areas that want them.

So where are those communities

that really want 20 mile an hour zones

because there's a road safety issue, because there's a school nearby, because

it's where people live, we want to try our best to try and make that happen.

And of course there are going to be logistical challenges associated with

that, we'll have to have a review of resources and make sure we can, you know,

honour that commitment. And it won't be quick because we're talking about traffic

regulation orders which are a long and quite often lengthy legal process, but it

is absolutely our aim to try and deliver

on this manifesto commitment.

And I'd say as well that the former cabinet member

for highways, Councillor Vernon Smith,

who's now the leader of the reform group

just a few years ago was all for 20 mile an hour zones.

I quote, 20 mile an hour limits are an important tool

to help deliver safer roads and can be used

to deliver a range of broader objectives,

including supporting economic regeneration

and placemaking, also maintaining the viability of rural villages and that can help to maintain

local business employment and reduce the need for longer distance car travel.

I'd end by saying I agree with Vernon.

Chair - 3:02:52

Chair - 3:02:57

Thank you Kate, so how are you land Becky?

Cllr Beki Hoyland - 3:03:01

Thank you, thanks chair.

No one likes a pothole.

No one likes a pothole, and years of patching

rather than resurfacing means that there's a large

backlog that needs to be addressed.

But I would argue not at the expense of creating

safe roads for all users.

Gloucestershire does not sit in a good place

on the league table of those killed and seriously injured.

Those concerning numbers over the last decade

have led to the council adopting Vision Zero

along with the safe system as a way to save lives on our roads.

This vision will only become a reality if we adopt 20 mile an hour in communities where people live and work.

If you're hit by a car travelling at 20 miles an hour, you've got a 97 % chance of surviving.

If you're hit by a car travelling at 35 miles an hour, you've got a 50 % chance of surviving.

Adjust that up and down to the weight of the car and the age and vulnerability of the person.

Is 15 miles an hour faster worth that increase in risk?

There are loads more stats out there

that tell us that speed kills,

but reducing the speed limit has many other benefits.

Highways are for all modes of transport, not just the car.

We need to ask ourselves what impact

are we having on our surrounding when we drive,

not how safe do I feel in the car.

When slower speeds, with slower speeds,

we are part of creating a community that people feel safe to live in,

safe not just to use their car for a short journey to the shop or school,

which all helps to build a sense of place and belonging.

Slower roads reduce noise and air pollution too, and changes the balance

of power from the car to the people. I suspect roads that have lower

speed limits are easier and cheaper to maintain, to a higher standard too,

so perhaps spending money on safer streets will save money not only

for the NHS the police and the fire service for highways to thank you

Chair - 3:05:01

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 3:05:04

Councillor wide -worn Roger thank you chair this motion is frankly nonsense

I don't usually use that sort of terminology in the council chamber but

It is nonsense.

We've just won an election and voted in by people

who care very much about getting their road piers done.

But we just won an election on that 20 mile an hour subject.

And I can tell you that if people

think that that's just something they've got to put up with,

we are getting hammered daily by parishes all over the county

saying when you get on when you're going to get on and do this so much so that

quite a lot of publicity has gone into fact that we are and we've always said

this would take time it will take quite a long time time but but nearly everybody

wants to do it and as a speaker said we're only going to introduce this into

communities that want it and they want it for the reasons that speakers have

already said better environment it's and it's safer and the council is not going

to meet its statistics for reducing killed and safety, particularly on urban

roads but on some rural roads as well unless it does introduce this policy.

While a lot's been made about the cost and in fact it's relatively trivial

compared to the capital budget, that's not to say that it's not important, it is

important every penny counts but this will be money well spent. We're talking

about you know previous administration made quite a lot of the fact that they

were going to spend a hundred million over four years on road improvements.

We're talking about probably less than two million a year for three years and

Plus also, and I know the speakers change his motion, but what goes on on the higher

speed roads is really important and that's where most of this 1 .5 minutes of the current

year is going because the 20 mile an hour budget will not really ramp up until the next

financial year in big numbers. And those high speed roads, A and B roads in rural areas

mainly, but some urban as well, are really important contributors to getting our

killed and safety down at Datsun and that's where most of that one million is.

The emissions statistics are frankly rubbish and I'm happy to discuss

that outside the meeting rather than fool you with it now. So are your

speed reductions and it's important we learn the right lessons from Wales. Yes

they did have a little bit of kickback and they had to change a few things but in

In fact, their accidents have gone down considerably

to the point where some insurance companies

are now offering lower premiums, if you live in Wales,

because the roads are, hey presto,

we've changed the speed, they've got safer.

Chair - 3:08:16

I think I'm out of time now, so I'll stop, thank you.

Thank you.

Next is, I've got eight people waiting here.

Next is Councillor Hill and Jeremy.

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 3:08:24

Cllr Suzanne Williams - 3:08:25

Yeah, thank you.

Cllr Jeremy Hilton - 3:08:31

Oh, this really is quite a crazy motion from the reform group.

It really is quite crazy.

Because first of all, you do know

that it's not compulsory that you have 20 mile an hour zones.

This is about communities on request asking

for their community, their village,

for the county council to consider

introducing 20 mile an hour zones where it's wanted.

So it's not going to happen across the county

as it did in Wales.

It will be on a case -by -case basis. I have 20 mile -hour zones in my division, an urban part of Gloucester.

I also have the results of the former Safer City project where we've got speed tables, speed cushions,

chicanes, which also help slow down traffic speeds and they work as well.

So physical barriers help. You can sometimes maybe don't need to introduce a 20 mile zone.

You could actually introduce a couple of chicanes in a village and that might well do the job as well. However to suggest that

Left members of reform are going to say no

For the next four years to any requests they get from their community

To do something about road safety in their patch their 20 -mile zone. They must be crazy

Not if the proposal and seconder want to say no

No, no, no to their decisions time and time again.

That's up to them.

But you're actually asking the rest of us to say no to it.

Oh, we can't do that because we lost a vote

because reform said we can't have any 20 mile an hour zones.

If you don't want them, you don't want them.

And I would say, if we get any requests

after this motion's passed from that lot over there,

we say no, or we say, yeah, you can have them,

but you can wait until everybody else gets theirs first.

Cllr Vernon Smith - 3:10:13

Chair - 3:10:14

Chairman, Mr. Chairman, let's have a sensible debate.

not be rude. We are not that lot we're Reform UK and you should respect us as

Cllr Mark Howard - 3:10:29

we respect all of you. Yeah point taken. Do you not adhere to the

Chair - 3:10:30

Nolan principles? That's correct really Jeremy please. Anyway David

Cllr David Willingham - 3:10:39

William, please. Thanks, chair. So I'll start off by saying the first motion I brought to

this authority when I joined as a new councillor back in 2021 was about tackling poverty and

deprivation in Gloucestershire and I was supported by Councillor Hilton and the Conservative

group who were the majority at the time. To their credit we ended up with 1 .5

million to the 12 most deployed lower super output areas in Gloucestershire as a

result of the motion we bought and the leadership at the time. So far today we

have had discussions about flags and 20 mile an hour just and grass cutting.

This really is just daft.

So I stood in this chamber in June 2023 to present a petition from Rowanfield School about having 20 mile an hour zone outside the school.

And I am not going to support the motion because actually I believe in road safety and I believe

in keeping children safe when they are walking or cycling through schools.

Something that the group opposite who brought this motion don't seem to believe in.

The stats that we have, at 40 mile an hour, 90 % of people involved in pedestrians hit by a car will be killed.

At 30, it says there's a 20 % chance they will be killed.

And at 30, 20 % chance they will be killed.

And at 20 miles an hour, a 2 .5 % chance they will be killed.

We've had similar statistics about injuries and fatalities presented to us at environment scrutiny

by officers either sitting in this room or sitting in this council who are quite happy with 20 mile an hour zones

where they need to be and where they are requested.

And in fact there are things like home zones which if you could implement them

Would have residential areas that you shouldn't be driving through faster than walking pace

Having those signs so that where people live where children want to play in colder sacks in the street

They can actually do that safely where the pedestrian takes priority over the car because it is a small cul -de -sac

And I'm sorry if you want road safety

Then you cannot support this motion because you are making road safety worse across this county

And I'm out of time so I'll finish there

Thank you, David

Chair - 3:13:36

Councillor Stewart

Cllr Stewart Dove - 3:13:42

Thank you chair

Initially, I wasn't gonna talk on this motion because there's other motions listed that I think are significantly more important

But by the time has been started we were never going to reach those

So I thought I'd ship in with my experience. I represent church down which is a

Suburban area and it's at 20 mile an hour zones for quite some years

And as much as some people grumble about, oh, it's only 20, in all my years as a borough

councillor, parish councillor and now a county councillor, I'm yet to receive a single email

or surgery visit about, isn't it disgusting, like 20 mile an hour zones.

No one, no one talks about it.

And I absolutely know that if we were to undo it, not that we're saying that in the motion,

but if that's what we were looking to do, I know that parents, local schools, older

residents care home managers they would not be with us they would be

disappointed that we've taken away something that they value that keeps

them safe so I just think we just need to calm ourselves I don't see anarchy

in church down because I went to my house own I don't think we'll get

anarchy elsewhere where people have requested it and I think we should not

Chair - 3:14:51

be supporting this motion thank you chair thank you very much

Councillor Morris, Don.

Thank you, Chair.

Cllr Dom Morris - 3:14:57

It's clear to me that Lib Dems haven't made the gear change from campaigning to governing,

and I actually feel sorry for them, because their literature promised they were going to fix the roads,

and they were going to make our roads safer.

And I'm afraid that's just not happening.

The Cabinet Member for Highways is on record as saying he's giving up on roads,

and he's going to just have to manage public expectations

because he can't fix them.

And now we see a road safety policy

that is not going to make our roads safer.

And I would urge the cabinet to have a deep dive

on the stats across Gloucestershire.

Because I've spent hours looking at this

and the vast majority of accidents happen outside

parish and town council boundaries.

You spend all this money, you spend all this time,

you spend all these officers' efforts,

you overwhelm the system for several years,

You change the number on those time posts and kill killed and seriously injured stats will not go down

Simple I would urge you to rethink your strategy on this because it is about making

Floss just race safer. We all agree on that. It is how we deliver it and

20 will not make our communities safer

Chair - 3:16:09

Thank You

Councillor Howard mark

Cllr Mark Howard - 3:16:14

Thank you chair good afternoon members my name is Mark Howard I am a retired

police officer of 31 years and rather than speaking from a position of opinion

or supposition I'd like to speak to you from a standpoint of experience now I'm

trained or I was trained and qualified in the use of the LTI speed gun I've

done a lot of work on policing with regards to speeds. It is a bone of contention on many

areas, many estates and road safety is something we simply cannot ignore. However, the problem

I have experienced with my 31 years of policing is the public perception of speed isn't always

accurate. People go by, they go by in a lower gear. It sounds like they are doing 100 when

they're doing 30 maybe surveys been carried out by highways with the double

strips we have done enforcement and more often than not we find it's not a

problem the sensitive areas around the school has anyone ever tried to do 20

miles an hour around the school dropping off and picking up time you'll be lucky

to do 10 to get by that I come from Wales or I worked in Wales as a police officer and I can assure you this motion was hated.

I implore the leader of the council to consider very carefully her options regarding this because it didn't end very well for Mr. Drakeford.

So the issues that we have we can't ignore the safety points which have all been covered

but the issues we have we have increased journey times this thing causes people to speed

unnecessarily when they're outside of the zones okay they're trying to make up the time these

this 20 mile an hour limit doesn't work with this steep hills because you have to select a lower

So you're using more fuel.

There's chaos with regards to where they start and where they end.

There's the cost.

This information has come from the WEAK website.

Economic implications for business, challenges for the emergency services.

I was a response driver for all of my career.

I can assure you it's a nightmare trying to get from one side of Newport to the other in rush hour.

Okay, and we risk putting the lives of emergency personnel and members of public at risk by creating

More confusion because this does create traffic flow and congestion problems. That's my

Professional view and standpoint and I present it for you to consider. Thank you

Chair - 3:19:20

Thank you, I

Thank you. I have two four six eight people waiting still and we've gone over time now for

accepting any more question

Debate so can I know how?

Councillors patient, please job

Cllr John Patient - 3:19:39

First of all the speed limits in Wales there was a review done

after the implementation and they then did wind back a whole 1 % of the

20 mile an hour limits and revert them back to 30

Also

I've been around speaking to the various parish councils and

They are all in favour of certain areas, which they know being 20 mile an hour limits

And so therefore we should be supporting that

And finally the rural roads are far more dangerous and kill more people on average than ones in town

And that's mainly because people are travelling at speeds in excess of 50 miles an hour. So if you hit someone you kill them

Whereas in towns normally people are only driving at 30 to 40 miles an hour

Which is a much lower percentage that you will actually kill someone although we do have many more accidents

In towns than we do out in the countryside. That's all thank you

Thank you John

Chair - 3:20:42

Councillor Smith Vernon

Yes, thank you chair

Cllr Vernon Smith - 3:20:46

And thank you, Councillor Harris for pointing out that I did introduce the 20 is plenty which I still think is

Council policy which that is 20 is plenty as you could put little signs up working with the parish council

Or working with your local highways manager, and I think that scheme still live

So I think that is very good because reform do take

Road safety as paramount but what reform in my group are doing here are quite clearly

stating we can take on the big issues.

Eloquently put by Councillor Morris is that I remember

the campaign where the Liberal Democrats were going

to fix our roads.

And the first thing that comes out when they become

the administration is we're not going to fix the roads.

We've got a six million issue in costs in the budget,

which I heard on Mondays now 10, which will grow to 30.

So come on administration, get hold of it.

But if you want to take your word the leader said that she wanted to work with all groups,

will reformer give in a hard decision here?

We're saying that though road safety is paramount, where is a certain issue, yes, we urge the

council to put it right.

But we're also making the hard decision of saying roads and road maintenance are the

number one issue in and around the county.

And so to help you fill the financial gap, we are saying freeze it for now so that you

can spend all this money on highway maintenance.

So I would say, come on, vote with this motion.

It's time for common sense time to get back to basics stop virtuoso signalling. It's time for reform

Chair - 3:22:46

Cllr Vernon Smith - 3:22:50

Thank you chair

Four years ago. It was my suggestion to bring the 20s plenty motion to council and it's

Cllr Gill Moseley - 3:23:02

failed because the Conservative administration weren't very keen in it then and it's taken

four years and our manifesto pledged to get it back up and running.

And I think the response so far from the various parishes is certainly shows what the public

think about it.

This – I'd like to just put a very quick reference to outside our county for this,

not just to Wales.

it was part of the Stockholm Declaration that the United Nations endorsed. Our governments,

all four of them in the United Kingdom endorsed it. Unfortunately, the English government didn't

put any money behind it like the other three did, but we do have that endorsement from the

government for this safety measure. I think this motion flies in the face of public sentiment,

common sense and statistics and understandably I won't be voting for it.

Chair - 3:23:58

Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Patel.

Cllr Gill Moseley - 3:24:02

Thank you Mr. Chairman. I think every single one of us in here in this chamber

will agree that road safety is of paramount importance. Absolutely. Let's

I'll just take a moment to reflect on figures I have for 2022.

I don't know what the current figures are, so apologies for that.

But in Gloucestershire, there were 7 ,038 deaths on our roads.

The impact on those victims and their families is absolutely horrendous.

Once again, we're talking about death, as I mentioned earlier.

No one here has mentioned about that.

So safety is important, very important.

Cllr Sajid Patel - 3:24:56

And I can't see why there would be any justification for compromising road safety over potholes.

I think that's a disgraceful motion, cheap motion to bring forward here in front of us

today.

That's the third one today which we could have had debate and discussions on more important

issues.

Who didn't get complaints about speeding?

I certainly get a lot of complaints all the time.

and my area is a 20 mile an hour zone and we still see people speeding.

So, good heavens, why would we even think about compromising safety and not taking that forward.

There was a report by the Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology which states that there is strong evidence

that 20 mile an hour zones constantly reduce traffic collisions and casualties and cut pollution by 30%,

which is contrary to what the opposition was saying here.

And if someone is struck by a vehicle at 20 miles an hour,

their chances of survival are 93 % higher.

Somebody said 97, but I don't know which one's right.

I've got 93 % here.

And I'm sorry, but we can't compromise public safety.

And as for Councillor Vernon Smith,

he's turned into a master of U -turns

just in a matter of months.

He switched to Reform UK because he

was worried about losing his seat

as a Conservative councillor.

He's bringing cheap motions here, or cheap headlines, in which we've just seen today

he's completed two U -turns on things he's said in the past.

He can't be trusted. It's an absolute mockery of democracy here.

It's a life of your life in stock. Thank you very much.

Chair - 3:26:32

So please, don't support the motion.

Thank you. Councillor David Stephen.

Cllr Stephen Davies - 3:26:40

Thank you, Chair. I'll be brief because we're running out of time.

But basically I'm going to vote against this motion because it's too simplistic

Actually, it's the wrong motion. We should be having a debate about broken promises every leaflet delivered by a Lib Dem

So we're gonna fix potholes. We're not debating that but guess what?

They have said they aren't gonna be able to do that and they're going to probably blame me not true

We increased our expenditure on roads

We increased our expenditure across this council by 53 million and now they want to talk about cuts

So unfortunately, this motion is too simplistic a DOM is correct and others are correct and that this should be data driven

And where the accidents are and where the impact is

But also I'm played Rogers incorrect 2 million if you do anything other than change the roundel to a 30 to 20

If you're actually going to reduce speeds, you will have to change road design

That is what everybody knows and believes and that costs about a hundred grand a pot. That's about 20 schemes

So I think there is an naivety about this but to Rogers credit and we've had a private email conversation on this

They know the details aren't there

and I agree I

Absolutely fully support the consultation with the parishes and I've encouraged my parishes to respond

Positively and I've encouraged them to do the devil in the detail if you go for a blanket the public will not support you

No, exactly, Lisa, I agree with you.

If you listen and take the time and go selective, as we're looking at in Slimbridge, you will

get support, though you will then hit the problem and you won't be able to afford it.

But I don't disparage the initiative and would have done much the same if I was in that position.

So I – did you want to speak, Lisa?

Put your hand up.

and

So I won't be spawned this because it's the wrong debate about the wrong issue

There is a much better debate we had about highways about the quality of our highways and the safety of our highways

This isn't it. Thank you

Thank you

Chair - 3:28:43

Excuse me

Councillor

Hagerbark

Cllr Alex Hegenbarth - 3:28:50

I've heard worse.

Yes, thank you.

It's just first of all to congratulate Councillors Rees and Grey on their maintenance

speeches for this.

The reason I had initially brought up about a point of order of this is because of the

change of the wording, because words are important, they're vitally important, because it's

all about choice.

The reason that we bring these together, to bring this concept about 20 is plenty and

give them choice, is to give them the opportunity to take control and have

some ownership and initiative of their own areas and own communities. Where I

live in Bishops Cleve there's the A435, the bypass, which of course is no

longer a bypass because of all the house building that's there. So of course that

is at the moment is 40 miles an hour and people blast their way down it as if

they're running from the devil. But of course people are crossing that road all

the time to take their kids to school. We have new communities there, the new

that have popped up which are fantastic and family orientated with lots of parks

and dog walkers and everything else but currently as they sit there 30 miles an

hour because that's the standard residential speed limit. So while I

understand this has come from the reform playbook of motions and things you could

bring forward maybe not the grass -cutting maybe that could have had a bit of a rethink

but I agree with Councillor Davis here there are bigger and better conversations

to have about this and I'd encourage yourselves Michael and Vernon maybe speaking to the other

Vernon about actually having something that's more substantive for us to talk about rather than

having the Royal Forum group led by an ex -conservative County Councillor who just

wants another shot at glory. Let's actually talk about things that are proper in this Council.

Thank you, Alex.

Chair - 3:30:43

I will practise your surname for the next meeting.

Next one is Councillor Alastair Chambers, please.

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 3:30:49

Thank you, Chair.

I would just like to reiterate what the two Councillors already said.

Great speeches by Reece and Greg.

Really, really well delivered.

On that note, though, I'm not going to be supporting it.

I stand here with deep concern, not just as a Councillor but as a parent, a resident and

a human being who values life over politics.

We're here discussing a motion that proposes to freeze 30 mile per hour speed limits in Gloucestershire.

A motion that on the surface may appear neutral, may appear cautious or sensible in terms of cost.

But let me be absolutely clear, it's not a neutral or sensible decision.

A freeze on speed limits is not cost free, it's not harmless.

It's a policy that comes with a human cost, a cost measured in funerals, measured in grieving families and a cost of our own.

Let me give you one stark irrefutable fact that we've heard time and time again today.

A child hit by 30 miles per hour is five times more likely to die than at 20.

We know this, the science is clear, the evidence is overwhelming.

And yet this motion would effectively reject that evidence and free speed limits where

they are.

Even in areas we know, the speed limits are already far too high.

So that's not sugarcoat this.

Every time we reject a lower speed limit in a residential area, a school area, we are

accepting there is an increased risk that a child may die.

Another parent would be burying their son or daughter.

Another family will be shattered forever.

The probability shows that if you are going to reduce it, there is a chance that somebody

will be saved, so why not save it?

And the cost of £1 .5 million being saved, there's a flip side to that.

Each fatal road traffic accident costs the UK exactly £1 .9 million.

That's coroner's costs, investigation, highway costs, police costs, coroner's reports, medical

reports.

It's £1 .9 million.

So if one child is saved, we've already saved 400 ,000 on the 1 .5 million spent on doing

the 20 mile per hour reductions, 400 ,000 in credit, and we've also saved that life.

So let's just say five accidents have saved a year, that's nearly 10 million pounds.

So tell me, how is this a cost saving policy?

It's not.

Freeing speed limits while shifting funding to pothole repairs might look good on paper,

but it's a false economy.

You may fix a few potholes, but you also bury a lot more children, and that's the truth

we can't ignore.

Instead of using a platform to reduce harm,

reduce emissions, and reduce death,

this motion does the opposite.

It proposes to do nothing,

freezing the status quo, unlocking in danger.

Chair colleagues, we're here to elect,

we were elected to manage decline, no, sorry.

We're elected not to manage decline.

We're elected to lead, to protect, and to save lives.

Freezing speed limits is not leadership,

it's a moral retreat, a policy failure,

the trial of our duty to keep Gloucestershire safe.

So I urge you all to reject this motion.

And that said though, there's a great first -desk speech.

It's quite a nervous thing to do.

But thanks everyone, cheers everybody.

Chair - 3:33:34

Thank you.

Final speaker is Councillor Hantz, Sarah.

Thank you, Chair.

Cllr Sarah Hands - 3:33:43

I will definitely make mine very brief.

I agree with lots, so there's no point going over it.

I just wanted to point out

that no one's actually mentioned yet,

this isn't just about 20 miles an hour,

We've also said that if any parishes or people,

residents want higher speed limits brought down

because they feel like it would be safer

for their communities, they can do that too.

So we're not looking at that.

It's not just that 20 mile an hour headline grabber,

that's not what it is.

And I just wanted to bring an example

and I'm sure actually there are gonna be

lots of councillors here.

If they looked at all the parishes in their divisions,

they'd probably find one like mine.

I have Ashleworth, which is just off the A417

near Hartbrake.

You come along the A417, turn off on one of the roads in, there are three main roads in,

go down a beautiful straight country road. The speed limit never changes through that entire village, it's 60 miles an hour.

They don't have speed limits in the village, they have a primary school, they have a large elderly community,

they have a village centre with lots of things going on and there's not one speed limit as such.

Just come off the main road and do what you want. Those are the sort of places that we're looking at.

You know, there are places that have got plenty of different ones church and great

I know church down actually are thinking we don't really need to do anymore

So we'll leave it but the places like Asher worth are the places that really need this and they are crying out for it

And I'm sure there are people here that can find other examples in their divisions that are like that. Thank you

Chair - 3:35:08

Joe you were waving your hands at me. Did you actually ask?

If I may, I just want to respond because I have been named a few times and made reference.

Cllr Joe Harris - 3:35:20

So yeah, I just want to talk very quickly about this issue of roads, road safety budgets.

Listen, you know, let's be honest, the last Conservative government decimated local council funding.

Coupled with an administration that neglected our roads, it has made for a very tricky situation indeed.

And just in terms of the comments that we've made around we're suddenly not fixing the roads, I say there's absolute rubbish.

There was a very clickbaity headline and Carmelo, I know you've got to do it around some of the comments I made.

But let me be very clear, we are absolutely committed to fixing our roads on this side of the chamber.

Absolutely committed.

But what we've also got to do is find a way of resourcing it.

And that is the challenge for me and my colleagues.

And that is what we will do.

Our roads are in a dire state and we were elected on a platform to try and fix as many as we can.

And that is what we will do.

And we had a great start.

We have had a great start already and there is more to come.

In the next few weeks, we've got Winchcombe Road being done.

We've got Dean's Way in Bishops' Cleave.

We've got London Road in Gloucester, Colford Road.

We've got Neville Road in Chkkesbury, we've got Beards Lane in Stroud,

Orchard Road, Lydney, Libwith Road, Bishops' Cleave,

Corncroft and Winnicroft Lane in your division, Alastair. Great news.

Chair - 3:36:48

And that's on top of the ones that have already happened.

Backus Road, Syrens system, the 830th Broadway.

Cllr Joe Harris - 3:36:55

So I think the message is clear.

Our brilliant team.

Yes, please.

Chair - 3:36:59

Okay.

Sorry, we've all listened to you today, so if we could have a bit of respect, as you

Cllr Joe Harris - 3:37:05

were saying, that would be great.

So the key thing, the key thing, the key thing here is that we support our brilliant teams

who are out there day and night trying to fix our roads.

The challenge for us as the politicians is to find the money, the resources to back them

up.

and that's not going to be done by this council alone.

That is going to require every member in this chamber to use their voice,

to lobby our MPs.

It requires our MPs to hold the government to account.

And ultimately, it requires the government to fix local government funding.

That is absolutely critical if we are going to fix our local roads and highways networks.

So let there be no doubt whatsoever,

We are absolutely committed to fixing our roads in this chamber and we will fight for the funding to do that. Thank you

Chair - 3:37:58

Kate's Louise Reese, would you like to sum up?

Cllr Michael Rees - 3:38:08

With regards to road safety or saying that I don't care about road safety

I very much do. I just feel like there are other options that are better than reducing the speed limit.

As many of you said, that people still speed through these areas despite the speed limit reductions.

So obviously they do not work. I also say that the average speeds are only decreasing by less than a mile per hour even after three years.

They do not work. So this is not a motion to stop road safety.

This is a motion to put money towards something that will increase road safety rather than be a detriment

I'd also like to mention to the chair

You did not let my colleague here speak after the time was called. However, you did allow one member of the opposition to speak

Chair - 3:39:01

Cllr Michael Rees - 3:39:01

Chair - 3:39:02

Could I just interject that your seconder did speak earlier on when he seconded the motion

Cllr Michael Rees - 3:39:10

I would also like to say, politely remind that residents decide what is important to

discuss in this chamber, not the members.

So in the future, there's actually, as you say, a lot is actually concentrate on what

is happening with the motion and not what you think is acceptable in the chamber.

Thank you very much, sir.

Chair - 3:39:36

Thank you.

So we will go to the vote then.

You're asking for another recorded vote, right?

Is everybody in favour of that?

Thank you.

Democratic Services - 3:39:58

As before, I'm going to read out your name and if you could tell me for, against or abstain

to the motion.

Thank you very much.

For Alistair Chambers against Linda Cohen

Darryl corpse, okay, Steven Davis against Ian Dobie against

Ray Donahue for

Stuart dub

Against Ben Evans

Stuart Graham for Andrew Gravelle's

Vernon Grey

For

Sarah Hans

Against

Joe Harris

Against

Mark Harris

Against

Colin Hay

Against

Alex Hegenbar

Against

Jeremy Hilton

Against

Paul Hodgkinson

Against

Craig Horrocks

Against

Martin Horward. Mark Howard. Becky Hoyland. Against. Chris Meyer. Chris

McFarlane. Against. Don Morris. Jill Moseley. Against.

Saj Patel

John Patien

Against

Jason Priest

Michael Rees

Steve Robinson

Against

Chair - 3:42:08

Democratic Services - 3:42:09

Sarah Sawyer

Vernon Smith

Lisa Spivey

Richard Stanley

Julian Tuck

Against

Rebecca Trimnell

against.

Chloe Turner.

against.

Kate Usmar.

against.

Ian Watson.

against.

Roger Wyborn.

against.

Suzanne Williams.

against.

David Willingham.

against.

Chair - 3:42:44

Democratic Services - 3:42:45

It's 11 -4, 37 against and one abstention.

Monitoring Officer - 3:42:46

Thank you.

So the motion failed.

Chair - 3:42:51

Thank you.

Now, an hour ago we should have invited our past councillors to the celebration of their

time as county councillors and also the elder woman.

If everybody is in agreement, because they have been waiting around for an hour, could

we move to item 15 at this point and then go back to the agenda after so

could I have agreement that we can move to 15 is everybody happy with that so

that we can do our presentation okay thank you thank you very much so I just

need to confirm that everybody agrees to the honorary alderman and honorary alderman women

as on page 55 and 56.

Everybody in agreement with that?

Nobody is not yet.

Okay.

So we will now move to the special council meeting.

Sorry.

Sorry, we need a vote on that.

We need a vote to suspend at the Adjourn List meeting, then move to the EGM and then we'll

please start.

Thank you Rob, do we actually need a proposer to...

You can propose it to the chair, you need a seconder.

Could I have a seconder that we...

Yeah, thank you very much.

So all those in favour of proposing...

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

Chair - 3:44:36

I now go on to the new agenda.

Do we have any apologies for the meeting of the new Joe's kind?

I think we just need to adjourn for 10 minutes to set up before everybody would be very welcome back in for the ceremony.

If everybody is happy with that, we will resume the meeting.

And we are now on members' questions.

Which is item 9 on the agenda.

We have got 52 questions.

So question 1.

Alistair, do you have a supplementary?

I do, Chair, but I left it outside if you can give me two seconds.

OK, we'll come back to you because of time.

OK, question two is Alistair again.

Right, question 6 then.

Burnham to Councillor Joe Smith.

Do you have a supplementary?

Sorry.

Did I?

I know her well.

Thank you.

Right, I'm with you.

Webcast Finished - 3:46:19

Chair - 3:46:19

Yes, thank you cancer Harris for the reply I

Do appreciate it. I think I just wanted to add to if you could

Just a bit of comment on fix my street. We've had a lot of issues with it and

Can't seem to be getting it to work. So just bringing that to your attention should put in

the questionnaire and the other one really wasn't so much a question is and the siren says the park in your division

Chair - 3:46:48

Because this is like

Well what there is there's some signs that need picking up from an April job and as cones by a tree

So I just thought if you could add them to the list, please. Thank you

Okay, yeah, thank you and noted Vernon thank you for looking at my division much appreciated

Okay

Can we go back to Alistair then?

Question one, Alistair, do you have a supplementary?

I do, thank you, Chair.

Thank you very much for the response, it's fantastic.

I know you'll do some amazing stuff already.

Will you look at committing to publish quarterly performance dashboards and holding regular

public briefings on progress, including outcomes for looked after children and staff retention

rates?

Thanks.

Yeah, absolutely.

We do that.

It goes to scrutiny.

and

There's a very those of you who've been running children services

Cllr Chris Mayo - 3:47:49

There's a huge set of data which goes to scrutiny and that I'm sure I'm looking at Steven is open to the public

And so I'm more than happy to show that with you

Question to thank you chair

Cllr Vernon Smith - 3:47:59

Will the council conduct independent audit for the highways contract to publish contract to penances

Bonuses awarded over the last five years. Thank you

Thank you, Anastas.

As I'm sure you're aware, the auditing and contract management

was a key part of our election campaign on this side of the

Chamber. I know it was a key pledge for the Green Party as

well.

Cllr Chris Mayo - 3:48:21

So, yeah, we're currently, I'm certainly getting to grips with

Cllr Joe Harris - 3:48:25

Chair - 3:48:34

the contracts we have at the minute, understanding how they

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 3:48:41

local cancer taxpayers here in Gloucestershire are getting the best repairs possible because

there are a number of repairs at the minute that aren't good enough and we certainly recognise

that.

Thank you.

Question four.

Thank you.

Can you confirm whether Gloucestershire County Council will divest its pension fund from fossil

fuels before 2030 and if not why?

Cllr Ben Evans - 3:48:59

I'm going to have to get back to him on that one because the pension fund is obviously

managed independently of cabinet members, but there is an argument for looking at responsible

investment and I'm sure pension fund managers and trustees will be aware of that already

and I know there have been calls about that before, but if I can get back to him with

Chair - 3:49:21

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 3:49:21

a more detailed answer about the proper process involved in that, then I will do so.

Sorry, Alice, I cut you short.

Question three.

Do you have a supplementary?

Cllr Joe Harris - 3:49:33

How will the administration guarantee continuity of care for vulnerable residents if a care provider fails or exits the market suddenly?

Sorry, can you repeat the question?

Yeah, no problem.

How will the administration guarantee continuity of care for vulnerable residents if a care provider fails or exits the market suddenly? Thank you.

There are provisions in place, but can I get back to you with the specific details of those things?

Question 5 supplementary.

Thank you, Chair.

Will the Administration commit to publishing a detailed itemised public facing register

Chair - 3:50:11

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 3:50:12

for board council projects over £100 ,000 including delivery status, delays and cost overruns?

Thank you.

Cllr Martin Horwood - 3:50:24

Could you just repeat that again? I didn't catch all of it.

Will the administration commit to publishing a detailed, itemised, public -facing register

of all council projects over £100 ,000 including delivery status, delays and cost overruns?

Chair - 3:50:50

We already do that in that the projects that we're going forward will be budgeted, so they

Cllr Martin Horwood - 3:50:55

will be in the budget papers.

And so I think that's a question of just pulling those out.

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 3:51:04

And I mean, one of the things that we will be doing

is keeping an eye on those more valuable projects.

And what we want to see is, and it's been alluded to already,

Cllr Kate Usmar - 3:51:18

the contract management and our procurement.

we want to see that contract management intensified,

Chair - 3:51:26

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 3:51:26

so we will know what's happening.

And I think that will be part of what we do in cabinet,

so it's keeping an eye on those things.

And if you have specific questions,

it will be to ask cabinet at those times,

and how well are we doing on certain procurement

and whatever.

Cllr Colin Hay - 3:51:46

That's all I can give you at the moment.

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 3:51:50

All right, thank you back on track then question seven Vernon do you have a

Supplementary. Yes. Thank you chair

Do apologise Ken so Harris I didn't quite word it correctly

Cllr Colin Hay - 3:52:07

Wave put 400 what I meant is actually you work for us directly and I found that I wanted just to cheque where we are

It's actually a hundred so I just wanted to double cheque but I've got a information now

and I've also been told to sermon Soren Suster town centre

Thank you.

Was there a question?

No, just point that.

Just point that in the back of the camera.

Thank you.

Yes, great.

I was waiting for what?

Question eight.

Vernon, do you have a question for the leader?

Yeah, apologies.

It was just for information.

Yes, thank you, Lisa.

With the situation in place, I think it's important to note that the

I have to ask you, do you not feel that the public should be asked for their view on the

various unitary authorities?

Yes, I do, and that will be part of the government consultation following submission of final

proposals in November.

So the government will then, as part of their statutory consultation, any proposals that

are put forward, go through quite a rigorous question and answer process, and the public

Chair - 3:53:13

and then at that point comment on each individual proposal

Cllr Vernon Smith - 3:53:21

and what it means in terms of the economy,

in terms of skills, in terms of place, et cetera.

So if you look at the current consultation

they're doing in Surrey,

that will give you a really good example

of what they're doing.

But I just also think it's really important to point out

whilst we are in the public domain,

that ultimately this will be a ministerial decision.

So I just don't want to anybody,

members of the public who are watching to think this is in any way shape or

Cllr Joe Harris - 3:53:49

form a kind of referendum on a decision for what is best for Gloucestershire and

actually it's really unfortunate that government have called this devolution

Chair - 3:53:57

and local government reorganisation and have told us that we are allowed to have

a big say in this but actually we don't get to control it and whilst I think

Cllr Vernon Smith - 3:54:03

that we are the ones that know the most about our place the government have

decided that this will be a ministerial decision so we whilst we are doing all

the work here in Gloucestershire to put forward the proposals that government could consider,

we will not be making that decision.

Thank you.

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 3:54:19

Question nine.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you for that, Lisa.

Yeah, on question nine, thank you for the information.

Really appreciate it.

So, wouldn't you agree again, Lisa, so if we take those figures as accurate, which I'm

sure they are, and factor in the literature training and for recruitment, the training

for recruitment with the additional district councils we are talking vast sums of money?

Well as I pointed out in my answer we have no specific climate training but training

is provided on a...oh are we on the right? You're on the wrong one Martin.

I beg your pardon. It was to...

Sorry is that question nine? Yes. Do you want me to read it again?

I wouldn't yes, I would I would appreciate that because I don't think I understood what you meant there. Sorry, right

So thank you for your answers on the spend on diversity equality training

What I'm saying is so if would you agree?

so if we take those figures as accurate, which I'm sure they are and

Factor in the literature and training for recruitment that is required

With the addition of district councils, we are talking about vast sums of money.

Would you agree?

No, and I have to say I'm struggling to really understand what you mean by in terms of recruitment

because I don't have those figures to hand.

Chair - 3:55:43

Cllr Vernon Smith - 3:55:44

I mean, what your question is about is about the quality diversity and inclusivity training.

So, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure and perhaps if we could take that as a written

supplementary I'll get back to you with a written response. Yeah okay that's fine

thank you thank you very much. Thank you, thank you very much. Question 10

Cllr Martin Horwood - 3:56:10

Councillor Camp. Yeah thank you, thank you Councillor Hayne for your response. Does the

headcount include contractors stroke agency staff and if not could you maybe

Chair - 3:56:20

Cllr Vernon Smith - 3:56:23

provide those numbers as well? Thank you. As you can imagine I haven't got those

figures to hand but yeah if you want figures on that but that's the wages

would be part of the contract so there'll be materials and wages depending

on what the contract is so in in a sense we've got to that might take a bit of

time but I think if you can clarify exactly what you want we'll see what we

can provide and that will be available to everybody okay yeah sorry my work

Contractors means agency starts as interchangeable pretty much. So is that it's people cost

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 3:57:00

Do you have a do you have a question on 11 supplementary? Thank you

Supplementary on 12

Yes, thank you. Um, thank you councillor Evans for that one

My belief is that the County Council responsible for meeting the countess educational needs

even though they may not be allowed to set up new grammar schools,

Cllr Vernon Smith - 3:57:23

they could maybe look into helping set up a satellite grammar school

off one of the existing ones.

Chair - 3:57:27

Grammar schools bring in a lot of children from out of county,

Cllr Piers Camp - 3:57:32

thus an economy into the county.

The Forest of Dean currently doesn't really have that great links

to get children to Gloucester to use grammar schools.

So I'm hoping that maybe you can consider that and look into it in some way.

I'm answering this.

Cllr Colin Hay - 3:57:46

I think it might have been directed better to Councillor Cohen, but I did speak to Kirsten Harrison director for education and

That's not my understanding, but I wouldn't stand here and say I'm definitely right. I'm learning my way into the role

I don't think it is within the county councils gift how and but what I would like to do because as I spoke to Kirsten

Harrison, I think

If I may say so

I think there might be some very specific

Cllr Piers Camp - 3:58:13

issues around education in the area you represent.

And I'd really like to come out and understand those better.

Chair - 3:58:17

And I think Linda may have done that already.

Cllr Piers Camp - 3:58:18

But if the two of us could come out and talk to you

Chair - 3:58:22

and discuss that in situ, I'd be really keen to do that.

Because yeah, I think it's important

there's specific issues.

Around grammar schools, my understanding

is we can't do that.

But again, I take advice on that.

And if we have that discussion, I think it would be useful.

Cllr Piers Camp - 3:58:33

Is that to satisfy your question,

even though I haven't quite answered it?

Yeah, it's satisfactory at this time.

Thank you.

Councillor Lidl chalice Lee

Do you have any further questions on your list of supplementaries

No further supplement.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Cllr Ben Evans - 3:59:13

Question 18 from Councillor...

Sorry, yeah, I'm jumping them.

They're on the back.

Next one is 16 then.

Councillor Vernon Grey to the leader.

Thank you, Chair. My question is to Lisa about the energy from waste plant, which is in Jablin

Park. You stated in your answer you would like to see the minimum amount of waste going

to Jablin Park. My question is, does Jablin Park process waste from other and neighbouring

local authorities

Chair - 4:00:00

I'm reliably informed by my colleague Martha forward that yes it does

Cllr Leigh Challis - 4:00:06

Next one case with a case of Vernon K again 17. Do you have a supplementary?

Yes, thank you chair

This is for Colin. Hey

Chair - 4:00:20

You provided figures for the revenue from javelin park

For 24, 25, that revenue amounted to £25 million, but the projection for the following

year is only £16 million.

Why is it £9 million less?

That's a fairly straightforward answer.

The amount that we get in terms of the electricity generated is dependent on the price of electricity.

The price of electricity is dropping in terms of the sale value

and so there isn't as much as

We won't get as much money as we did before

Thank you

Do you have a supplementary to 18 excellent great

Yes for Colin hey again

thank you for providing the cost for utilities for

Puschia Hall I noticed that again the projections for next year are lower

Cllr Vernon Gray - 4:01:39

Okay, thank you, so we move on 19 a

Councillor Graham

councillor Evans

So I've no more questions on 19 a thank you

19 be

Cllr Colin Hay - 4:02:07

I don't have any further questions on number 20 either.

Okay, okay, sir.

21, Councillor Michael Rees.

Sorry, Chair, just to say, you have to arrange a meeting.

Thank you.

Chair - 4:02:34

21 then, Councillor Michael Rees.

Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you for the answer, Councillor Cawley.

Cllr Vernon Gray - 4:02:39

I would like to ask, with the list you provided for what will be, what is done to address

to climate crisis or global warming.

You said it's impossible to give a specific amount.

Can you just give a rough amount would be appreciated?

And for that cost of money, how much do you expect it to impact

Chair - 4:03:02

the environment, having the sense of emissions in the air production?

Thank you.

Cllr Stuart Graham - 4:03:09

Well, it is genuinely quite difficult to do an estimated amount.

Chair - 4:03:14

I mean, our total revenue expenditure is, I think, of the order of 600 million pounds

a year.

Cllr Stuart Graham - 4:03:23

And in one sense, all of it is addressing issues of climate change.

When you speak into your microphone, even though it's not working brilliantly well today

for you, sorry, then you are using renewable electricity, which we have specifically sourced

to address the issue of climate change.

When we discuss flooding, that's something that is exacerbated by climate change.

Chair - 4:03:42

So when we do training and information on that, it has to take that into account.

Cllr Colin Hay - 4:03:47

Chair - 4:03:48

Cllr Colin Hay - 4:03:48

So really, the entire Council's carbon footprint, we estimate to be something around 420 ,000

tonnes of CO2 equivalent a year.

Chair - 4:03:56

Cllr Michael Rees - 4:03:58

If we make the kind of reductions that we want to make as a Council, then we would take

out a very significant proportion of that.

We aim to be net zero with some degree of offsetting by 2030.

So in a sense all of that ultimately we should be trying to get rid of

And that is crucially important for the environment. It will make an enormous impact

We are one of the biggest misses just by sheer virtue of our size and the and the lot

You know the amount of operations we do in the county. So yes, it will have a very significant impact

Cllr Martin Horwood - 4:04:33

Do you have a supplementary to 22

23 24 then Councillor Donahoe to Councillor Hogg -Johnson.

Thank you chair. As I've said the police are incredibly incredibly stretched and I work alongside them in my day job and I can see that they cannot put any more of their heart and soul into their job.

They are working at over capacity every day.

How will the GCC and the police measure the impact of these cuts on the men and women

on the frontline police and the public?

Yeah, thanks, Ray, for your question.

I mean, I think, first of all, it's just for clarity that we have no responsibility for

policing in Gloucestershire.

So I just need to say that because obviously that is the responsibility of Chris Nelson,

the Policing Crime Commissioner.

I totally agree with you that the police are very stretched and they're very thinly spread certainly in my area

I know how thinly spread they are and it's difficult for them to attend the things they want to do which is not good

Because all of us want crime to be reduced and we want people to feel safe and reassured

In terms of your specific point. I have regular meetings with Chris Nelson on behalf of this council

Cllr Michael Rees - 4:05:52

Chair - 4:05:55

so I'm happy to raise anything you'd like me to raise if you want to

Summarise what you would like me to talk about then I'm very happy to do that either through a meeting with you or drop me

An email whichever is easiest for you, but I'm happy to do that

Thank you

So question 25

Cllr Ray Donaghue - 4:06:16

So Roger why I know we've covered a lot of the 20 mile per hour zone issue

but the 2024 review that they're talking about by the Welsh government led to a

and they are now on to reassess the speed limit.

So I believe that a petition attracting almost half a million signatures was signed when

the Welsh population is around three million.

Cllr Paul Hodgkinson - 4:06:42

One of the issues it seems in the original decision was to lower the speed limit so broadly

was that they seemed to be more approval.

I'll just ask you to read it.

Sorry.

One second, I've lost all my questions and answers now.

What are the issues in the original decision

to lower speed limits so broadly,

and I know that we're not lowering it like in a blanket way,

is that there seemed to be more approval

for the 20 - marker hours done among local politicians

rather than general public,

hence why the petition is so strong.

How will you reach the public properly and fully

so as to get their opinions,

which is the ones that matters,

not that the local government or those who shout the loudest

often with good reason or good meaning,

but because the Welsh U -turn does that,

Chair - 4:07:32

turn does that a lot of people, perhaps they sign them.

Cllr Ray Donaghue - 4:07:38

Yeah, thank you, Ray, and it is a very good question.

What happened in Wales is that they, I think in retrospect, were a little over -enthusiastic in some places,

and they did have to do some reversals, but it wasn't a very large proportion of roads that they had to turn back

after there were lots of petitions and protests and so forth.

Nevertheless, I think there are two lessons you have to learn from Wales.

One is that they've got a very good result in terms of road safety and insurance companies

don't like giving money away.

So if they're reducing premiums, then there are serious and tangible reductions in accidents.

But the other lesson you have to learn is on consultation.

And anybody that's done a 20 mile an hour scheme across the country generally will tell

That is really really important to do consultation. So I do it properly so it is not just about

Initially asking the parishes and district councillors in urban areas

For it. Yes now important as that is to find out there is a general opinion

Among politicians at the community want to the important thing to do after that is to have

Cllr Suzanne Williams - 4:09:01

Conventional walk -in type of consultation. This is all stuff

but I've already discussed with officers,

Cllr Richard Stanley - 4:09:07

so that people do, as well as online stuff,

Cllr Suzanne Williams - 4:09:10

so that people can make their individual views

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 4:09:13

and therefore their collective views as well known,

so that we don't do, if you like, silly things,

but at the same time, we want to get the main jobs done

where the communities want it.

But yeah, there will be, I would expect,

So some things to change as a result of the public consultation where people see no, this is not gonna work on this road

You never get the speed down on a road like that and it's quite safe. Anyway, obviously if it isn't safe

That's a pretty different thing

But essentially that that's a rather long answer, but I thought it was worth taking time out to give that answer properly

Thank you. Do you have a supplementary for question 26?

Just to say that there are a couple of roads in the forest of Dean where it seems that speed traps are being used more

To for revenue or to get points

27 then Kate's LeMayo not got a supplementary for 26

Having worked closely with drug and alcohol addicted parents for many years, I've seen

the impacts on their children's wellbeing, not just emotionally, but often cognitively

and physically from birth. Tragically, they seem to have learned in their behavioural

difficulties more often than not. We watch by helplessly as we watch expectant mothers

compelled by their addiction drink super strength alcohol, inject heroin and smoke crack cocaine,

amongst other things, all going into their bodies and the baby within them. This is a

tragic and seemingly unfortunately growing problem for them and for all of us. The trauma

alone of the parents' life has long been proven to impact development and wellbeing of these

children, let alone the substances they take. What awareness work and training can the GCC

offer to help the services that support these families, the families themselves and the

Chair - 4:11:15

general public to make this often taboo and sad issue more understood and therefore sometimes

Cllr Ray Donaghue - 4:11:21

avoidable? Can a more widespread campaign be considered?

I'll answer this question but obviously this covers two areas really, education and children

Chair - 4:11:34

and family services. Like you, I'm very familiar with the children who suffer from the effects

Cllr Ray Donaghue - 4:11:40

of foetal alcohol syndrome, something that is prevalent in a number of our schools in

the areas of greatest deprivation and obviously drug addiction is something that blights the

futures of many of our children. So the thing that we are doing that probably is of going

we have most significance is the set up of the family hubs and you'll know that there

are new family hubs in the forest and that seems to me to be a very good place to start

in terms of outreach to parents before, well when they're teenagers and before they actually

start to have children and then also to support them once they go through that process because

that's about earning the trust of those people and being at hand because I recognise that

when you're in a rural area it is much more difficult to access the kind of services that

more readily available in towns and cities. I take a particular interest in

the Forest of Dean and you'll see over the summer that I will be out in those

hubs and maybe we could have a meeting on site and have a discussion about it

because it's something that really adversely affects our children and if we

can do something before birth then it makes a significant difference. Thank you.

Question 27, Chris Mayo.

Do you have a supplementary to 27?

Yeah, I have, yeah.

Thank you, Chair.

My question to 27 is how many different transport companies are included in that figure actually

run the CEN for us?

Cllr Linda Cohen - 4:13:10

I don't have the answer to that question but I can report back to you within 24 hours.

Excellent.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Do you have a supplementary to 28?

Sorry, yeah.

That one's, well, yeah, it's if yes, how much would each Councillor receive?

No, you're standing.

Sorry.

Yeah, yeah.

We will we be my question was will we be running a successful build back better programme in the current term?

My question has already been written in there for me. So how I am if so, how much would each counsellor receive?

Okay, Chris, um, so we are looking obviously working on this one it was a manifesto commitment

I've been talking to the director of public health whose area that the fund will come from

Probably, I mean at this stage we're working on a figure

probably of 20 ,000 per councillor,

but that's over the next two years.

So we're looking at the next two years only,

Chair - 4:14:05

simply because obviously there is, as we know,

a shelf life to this council,

after which we'll have local government reorganisation,

Cllr Chris Mayo - 4:14:13

so it's almost certain after that time

that we won't exist in some way.

So we're just gonna look at the next two years.

But we will announce everything specifically in the autumn,

Including the criteria and how that money how would you apply for that money?

So all will be revealed in due course not long to wait, but that's the ballpark figure at work into at the moment

Brilliant. Thank you. I've got no no supplementary for question 29

Chair - 4:14:38

So question 30 then came through the bottle room

Do you have one to 30 yeah, no, no supplement no

Cllr Chris Mayo - 4:14:51

31.

Again no supplement.

And so question 33, Councillor Mark Hayward, do you have a supplementary to 33?

Cllr Paul Hodgkinson - 4:15:08

Chair, it's question 32 I think.

Sorry I can't hear you.

I think you skipped a question.

Oh, you did say you had one.

Sorry.

Did you say you had one to 32?

No, no supplement, no.

No, you don't. OK.

It's all right. I'm a bit mutton, so if people could speak up, that would help.

Question 33 then.

Councillor Mark Heywood.

Do you have a supplementary?

I'm Mark Heywood. I have no question.

You're all right. Yeah.

34. Do you have a supplementary, an extra question?

Cllr Chris Mayo - 4:15:55

No?

Chair - 4:15:56

No, sorry.

Cllr Chris Mayo - 4:15:58

OK. You're 35. You're happy with the answer being given?

Chair - 4:16:05

I've not actually seen that, no.

You haven't seen the answer that you received. You should have received the answer.

Okay.

It's all right.

We're conscious of the time, so.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, question 36, then.

Jason Priest, do you have a supplementary?

33? No? No, 37? Okay, you're all right. Okay, he doesn't have any other supplementaries,

Thank you. Okay and 38 so you don't have any supplementaries at this point. Okay. Thank you

question 39

Counsellors Alistair chambers. Do you have a supplementary? No chair. Thank you

question 45

Stephen there's

Thank you for the answer if we're going to have a vote on

November the 12th, which I'm very pleased to hear would it not be useful to have got from a survey?

perhaps, the views of the people of Gloucestershire as to which of the three

options they prefer?

Claire you're referencing the engagement piece that we want and I think you know

Chair - 4:17:51

that's been part of the work that we've been doing collectively as the

seven councils and government have asked us to engage in order to feed the

proposals that we will be working up as full business cases and that's what

we are doing. We are working all together, gaging that response and making sure that

when we feed into and work out the business cases that we can have all of the information

which is available and that will be the point where we will be collecting that information.

That's being shared with group leaders now and we have also got a number of all member

briefings we will be sharing the slides with you and then you can come to that decision

when we get to the meeting in November.

Thank you. I think we now want to question 49 because the other councillors have left the chamber.

So question 49, councillor Dowell.

Do you have a supplementary question?

Councillor Swab, thank you for replying. Although your response didn't answer no.

So does that mean we're looking at a case of wait and see?

Watch this space

only ask this because

Because if you apply the same percentage of budget

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 4:19:05

As the Lib Dems have done at the Cotswold District Council to this council

Spending on PR and spin you're looking at figure of around 18 million pounds

Would be the percentage that the Cotswold District Council spends on on comms, which is more than being Q spends nationally

Thank you Councillor Kour and I think communicating with our residents is

incredibly important and it's something that's come up from for me in the

last few weeks since I've been the leader time and time again and it's not

just with our residents it was with our wider stakeholders and it's also a

public relations function especially as we look towards things like local

government reorganisation and devolution and something which I feel that this

Cllr Paul Hodgkinson - 4:19:48

council really needs to up its game on because I think we need to be doing

lobbying and really shouting for Gloucestershire. However to your specific

point around budgets and I don't know if you were at the all member briefing on

Chair - 4:19:58

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 4:19:58

Monday about you know the fairer funding review and what that might mean for this

council so I think you'll probably understand if you had been why I'm

reticent at this point to be committing to anything I think we've all got and

it's going to be incumbent on all of us here to set a budget next year and that

is going to be a very very big challenge so I know that Nina is already starting

on that throughout August. She'll be meeting with all the directors and looking at what's

happening within the individual directorates and having to put that all together. And we

will be keeping you as Councillors involved in that process because I can tell you what

this next year is going to be a really, really tough one. Let's not forget we had £10 million

of baked -in savings that we already had to find. The previous administration left us

that. And now we're looking at a fair funding review, which in initial modelling looks like

it's going to be really really tough on Gloucestershire so I'm not going to make

Chair - 4:20:51

you making any commitments around budget setting at this point.

Thank you very much leader. So that's the end of questions thank you all very much

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 4:21:00

Chair - 4:21:01

for your questions today. We're moving on now to item 10 which is for information

only but you can ask questions of the leader and thank you very much leader

Cllr Stephen Davies - 4:21:14

you are going to present this on the development of a new council strategy to come to us in November.

Yes, thank you chair and I'll be very brief on this because it's been a long hot day, so I think

you will have that timeline in your packs. I just wanted to say really that we felt that it was very

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 4:21:32

important as a new administration to come in and to reset our or to set our own priorities as an

administration and I really want to again in my spirit of collaborative

working make sure that you are all involved in that because we are all here

as leaders of Gloucestershire so whilst these will be the priorities of this

administration and the corporate plan for this administration I really hope

that it is something that we can all collectively own so to that end we've

begun the process on the 4th of July and we will are already looking at how that

can fit in to a corporate plan, what those priorities are.

And I'm hoping to bring something to an initial phase

to corporate overview and scrutiny in a couple of weeks.

Chair - 4:22:18

And then we'll be working again throughout August

with further engagement in September.

And that will be not just with you as councillors,

but also our wider partnership and stakeholders.

Cllr Daryl Corps - 4:22:31

So we want to make sure that we're really bringing everybody

in on this, because we know that what we want to achieve here

Gloucestershire we can't do alone we have to do that with our partners many

of them have been mentioned already today whether that's the police the

district councils whether it's the NHS our care and health colleagues so we

wanted to make sure that we are engaging in that to make sure we're aligned on

that and then we will have final draughts in October and bring it to what will

probably be a very busy council meeting in November but I'm happy to take any

questions on that.

Any questions to the leader?

No.

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 4:23:10

Okay.

Stephen, Mr. Daniels.

I just wanted to comment on the budget challenge because there was just that 10 million number

of savings.

Let's just put that in perspective, 1 .6 percent of our budget that we're looking to save in

transformation.

So when we get into this new process, which is the topic discussed, let's not bandy around

that there was some big gap.

We had a transformation cabinet member whose job it was to achieve that.

I actually recognise, and the question is, when will we get detail of the government

settlement, because I recognise that it's going to be more challenging this year than

previously, because of the change in government.

Yeah, I'm really happy to answer that question, but I'm not quite sure that it relates to

the item.

You know, this was about the corporate plan timeline, so I'm not quite sure where that

comes in, but in the spirit of collaboration, I will answer your question, as nothing else

to do with this item. I think you know unfortunately for our finance

colleagues they will get a very nice Christmas present as per usual so the

Féiró funding review is being consulted on right now by government.

Obviously there are a number of representations coming in and as per

usual government will let us know. I think Nina probably you were

hoping 13th, 15th of December so it might not quite be the Christmas Eve but you

know I think you know on that point for us all to recognise that we will be

making and going through the budget setting process

without knowing what that final settlement is going to be.

And whilst we've had that modelling done,

Chair - 4:24:42

we won't know the final settlement.

So it does make it difficult.

And we will have gone through a cabinet

and had to go out to consultation

based on a figure that we don't know whether that's true.

So when we come back to look at the budget scrutiny process

in January, when we have that full day of meetings,

We will by that point had further detail and it may be that we are looking to make further changes to the budget ahead of

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 4:25:06

the final budget meeting in

February

Thank you, thank you leader, so if there's no no other questions we will move on thank you

Item 11 then the scrutiny report

Can't sleep and Watson is presenting it because Councillor Gary left is on holiday. Thanks. What's thank you very much chair

Yeah councillor love is not with us today. So I am

substituting for him

You will have noticed that the pack isn't very thick this month

Many of you will be in training and inductions

For scrutiny and overview and the actual work is always starting this week and next week

So I think in the interests of brevity if there are any burning questions, I will of course ask them

But otherwise, I fully expect that in the next meeting. We will have much more from overview and scrutiny

Any questions any questions

Thank you, thank you very much

item 12 an appointment to eight solid bodies

You should have received an email yesterday.

I received one.

And they are kindly being put up on the board there.

Do we agree these...

Do we actually take a vote on this one?

A proposed and a seconder?

No, just a vote.

So everybody has received the list.

Can we take a vote on that then?

All those who are in favour of the list as stands up on the board

Chair - 4:26:52

Anybody against please

Anybody against any abstentions

Okay

Cllr Stephen Davies - 4:27:02

Two abstentions. Okay. Thank you. So the list has shown up on the board

Item 13 then is the Constitution Committee.

You received all the papers for that.

Colin, you're gonna present this.

Councillor Colin Hay, thank you.

Yeah, I am.

And I have to say, I was working up an introduction

for this meeting to go through the constitutional changes.

And actually, the discussion on the motions this morning

really helps me an awful lot.

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 4:27:37

Because, and I just addressed the new members here,

you'll have spent today listening to various motions,

and my worry is, how much did you learn

about what happens in Gloucestershire County Council?

And I don't think that's very much at all.

So we're turning the meeting around

and introducing some new items.

So there's a sort of a new order of business.

So it would be approval of the minutes, as usual.

And then normally it's the announcements from the chair.

But the provision is there for announcements

from the chair, the leader of the council, cabinet members,

and or the chief executive.

So that they will stay there.

And I think that, from what I understand,

Lisa will be taking advantage of that just to make quite simple announcements

As to what's what is happening then there's the introduction of a new item

Which is a report from cabinet and I don't expect that to take long in terms of any introduction

It's there

Primarily for members of this council to ask cabinet members what's going on?

Chair - 4:29:01

And the report will be there and we will take questions at the meeting. So no notice on

That that cabinet report we think that makes us more open

transparent and honest in the way that we move forward

Cllr Ian Watson - 4:29:17

So that will be that that part of it

Actually that comes after there's announcements as public questions member questions petitions corporate parenting

Now in the Constitution Committee, I did think that it would be, it was possible for that

to be included in the cabinet report. However, Ofsted, when they were visiting, thought that

the corporate parenting section was really, really important. They were very pleased about

it and in fact were going to other councils and saying, look what Gloucestershire's doing.

Chair - 4:29:53

And in our current circumstances, I felt it was probably not wise to drop that.

So we will keep that corporate parenting.

What I have asked Ben to look at and Anne and Linda is how to bring that alive a little

bit more so that we get a much better understanding of what's going on and how we can be better

corporate parents.

So that's that.

Then it's the report from the cabinet.

And then to receive reports from the scrutiny committees.

We've had scrutiny committees and admittedly,

it's mainly been their first meetings.

But we're all tired, we want to go in

and actually get scant attention

from this council and councillors.

So by actually having the scrutiny report beforehand,

We think you can interrogate what's happening in the various scrutiny committees a lot better than we currently do

and then it would be

Motions and then

any other business that is

Cllr Colin Hay - 4:31:07

That's flagged for the council to do that. I think is better the way in which motions will be taken

It is similar to the way in which Gloucester

does it at the moment.

So at the moment, what we're intending

is that each group will have an order.

So let's say it's in order of size for the first meeting.

So Liberal Democrats first, Reform second, Green third,

Conservatives fourth, and then Independents,

and the single Labour member will be there as well.

It will then, so we get the first shot at that meeting.

At the subsequent meeting, we drop to the bottom,

reform come up to the top, and then it goes round like that.

The other thing that's really quite difficult,

and actually I don't think helps the business

of this council, is that everybody rushes in

at the end of a meeting to put motions in

so that they've got a slot.

That can be two, three months before that meeting.

So we're not stopping any group from putting motions

or individuals from putting motions in to be discussed.

But each group will then be able to choose

which is their primary motion to be heard at council.

So if something topical crops up,

that can be their first motion.

And by rotating it that way, we think that's the fairest way of all groups having the opportunity

to put a motion to council. In most cases, at least the top three will be heard, possibly

the top four. So that gives most people a chance at each meeting. We think that's fair,

and those are the changes that we've been making at the Constitution Committee. And

That was the main part of it.

There's some other smaller items which are there,

namely the changes that were made by the monitoring officer.

Because people have noticed it's a different cabinet.

It's a different leader.

There's been some slight alterations

within the portfolios.

And so there's those normal changes that take place.

I'm happy to take any questions.

But I commend those changes to the Constitution

Thank You Colin

questions any questions to Colin

Prince allows two chambers. Thank you chair

Colin's in my understanding that supplement questions are being reduced to three

Per member questions

Yeah, we didn't cheque.

We did.

Sorry?

Public questions.

Oh, that was right.

It was the supplementary public questions.

And what we're doing there is that anyone

asking multiple questions will have an opportunity

of asking the three questions on any of those answers.

And we limit it to three so that others get a chance

to ask their supplementary questions.

We then, it's half an hour.

And the view that we've been taking

is that if there is time, and everyone

has had the opportunity to ask three questions,

supplementary questions.

If there is time at the end, we can revisit that

so that they get the opportunity to ask

those other questions.

Because again, if people have taken the trouble to turn up,

we want to give them the opportunity.

It's very frustrating if you've turned up

and you don't get the opportunity

to ask supplementary questions.

So that's the reason we've done that.

Okay?

Thank you.

Yeah, I'm happy with all this.

I'd just like to hear why Lib Dems as members, because you've got the cabinet, why do you

get motions as well?

I'm not someone that understands constitutions, but that seems like you've got two bites of

the cake there.

Just wondering.

Thanks.

The

We would have there are we do have back benches as well

they may want to put a motion forward and then we that's the reason it's there and

You know, we'll see how it goes I this is personal feeling I

Think the cabinet has the opportunity of bringing things forward to Council for an opinion or you know, whatever so

We ought to be using that more

Rather than the the motions, but that's that's personal view

I think we will have at times when we will want to put some motions forward. So that's why it's still there

You take the William

Thanks, just a very brief question following the

bother

Time what time wasting?

recorded votes

We've got electronic equipment, which if it's similar to that used in other council chambers is capable of doing electronic voting

Can we request Constitution committee?

Please look at moving to electronic voting so that there isn't an opportunity to just so every vote is then we called

recorded and there isn't

this

Unnecessary delay of reading out 55 names and getting 55 responses

which is not a great use of time when we have hopefully have technology that can make that work.

I know we can't do it on this one, but can you look at it next time, please?

I do know that the request has gone in to see about getting electronic voting,

and as soon as we've got a reply from that, we'll bring it forward and let people know.

But it does improve things, and it saves all the counting and everything.

Chair - 4:37:26

Cllr Alastair Chambers - 4:37:34

Cllr Colin Hay - 4:37:49

is going on in 19 Neger for seven years in this time right now, and that aimings particularly

all those that didn't bother to stay and also dependent on how you vote.

Now, please, let me talk to you why I think it's not democratic.

It sounds really fair.

Everyone gets a go.

But if you take the amount of people we represent, Reform, there are only 11 members, but if

you take the vote across the county, we represent nearly the same amount as the Liberals at

just the recent election. And also what's happening is everyone will get a fair vote

because with no disrespect to the independent, that's brilliant, he gets a motion every council

nearly, but you'll miss speaking it too probably.

So will the Conservatives and so will the Greens.

But reform, who are the official opposition

and do represent the vast majority of the public

Chair - 4:39:04

in Gloucestershire, equal, equal, listen, please listen.

Please listen, this is your problem.

Cllr Beki Hoyland - 4:39:07

This is why we keep winning like we've just done in Northway.

I said, nearly, but you should give the democratic vote of the public, the democratic right of

Cllr Colin Hay - 4:39:27

reform councillors having the ability to at least do two per meeting, but because what

will happen with this fairness and chair, I need to know in fairness the chairman is

always neutral, always has been neutral and always will be neutral, but this system is

going to allow you to ask motions.

You'll be one of these going round in motions.

So what will happen probably, because we saw it today,

you thought they were rubbish motions.

People in Chuxbury didn't think it was rubbish motion

about the grass, and I thank you, Councillor Stanley,

I will work with you, we will try and get it resolved.

It was a genuine motion.

Chair - 4:40:08

Cllr David Willingham - 4:40:11

We tried to save money with the 20 mile an hour motion. It's a genuine motion. So if you think it's rubbish

shame on you

Also, we have tried it's laughs laughs. Oh, it's funny. Isn't it? Oh, it's very funny

I am talking about democracy pleasing chair. Please bear with me. I will

We are opposes and I haven't even talked about the public you're trying to curb the public I

understand what you're trying to say but what you could do is let public members

have first couple of three questions because as chair we always got through

the meetings the public should never be curbed from asking questions at a full

council but this system will not allow the public to ask all the questions they

want to there's a time limit you should allow the public to ask the question

Cllr Colin Hay - 4:40:58

stop whispering and listen please

People, the public should be allowed to ask. It's not funny. I don't know why they think it's funny because we're talking about democracy.

Chair - 4:41:15

Can we just remember about your effect? Yes, please.

Cllr Vernon Smith - 4:41:17

So we reformer against us and we ask for a recorded vote because it is anti -democratic

against the Reform UK group because of the majority of public we represent. It's also

not fair on the public because the public should be allowed to ask questions. You could

So stopping the public asking questions or supplementary, my point is again anti -democratic.

And I would urge you to rethink it.

We haven't even got to moving the motions around.

The reason you want to move the motions to the end of the meeting is because like you're all tired.

So you're thinking, oh, we'll all drift off.

No, you think the media, let's talk reality.

You think the media won't be here.

The media will be here.

They will see this for what it is.

It is anti -Democrat.

And you want to talk as well at the front of the meeting and you want to do motions.

You're the administration.

I agree with Becky.

You should be just putting things into action, not talking about them.

We're here to criticise constructively what you're trying to achieve.

We're trying to help you, which is what we're trying to do today.

Thank you very much.

Lida, did you or who would like to answer that?

Yes, just a couple of things on there.

So I do know that a number of our members have had to leave.

That's because a number of them have caring responsibilities.

So I know that those that have got school run to do and have got children at home

Chair - 4:43:00

have had to leave. This meeting has taken longer than we were anticipating.

So that's...

Cllr Vernon Smith - 4:43:02

The nation's been taken longer than you have.

Absolutely.

But I just wanted to make that clear that it isn't people scuttling off

and actually, as district councillors,

some of us have actually got a meeting

that we're supposed to be at at five o 'clock,

so we're still here, and a couple of those members have left

so I appreciate that, and there are a variety of reasons

why people leave, but it's not brilliant,

I totally agree, but that's why,

so I just wanted to pick that up.

I'd just like to pick up the point as well

about the number of people that have voted for Reform UK

and those that voted for the Liberal Democrats.

I think the electorate was clear

that actually we clearly won the public vote,

the numbers are there, they're in the public domain, we have the most number of

Councillors and we did get the most number of individual votes. It was

close, closer than I would like but there we go and that's that's where we're at.

So just to really clarify that, that actually is Liberal Democrats and

actually with our Labour and Green colleagues we as a progressive parties

represent many many more people of Gloucestershire than Reform UK. And just

Chair - 4:44:07

Finally, to your individual points around trying to curb democracy, I really don't think

that is the spirit of what we have been trying to do.

Cllr Vernon Smith - 4:44:14

I really would disagree with you on that.

Chair - 4:44:16

Cllr Vernon Smith - 4:44:18

In terms of the public questions, what we try to do is we have half an hour and we know

that some people can put in a whole load of questions and then dominate that whole half

hour.

So what we try to do is limit those supplementary questions to three with the proviso, as Councillor

said that if there was extra time at the end and more questions want to be asked by an

individual they could, you know, our door is open, you know, and I think, you know,

the previous administration would have been the same. I know that they looked at involving

the public whenever they could. We get emailed by the public, we get asked for meetings with

the public and we are always there to respond and I would hope that all of you as Councillors

Chair - 4:44:56

Cllr Vernon Smith - 4:44:59

would be doing that in any case. So I'm sure that, you know, the public who needs to be

Chair - 4:45:04

will get their points answered and those that want to put that in the public

Cllr Vernon Smith - 4:45:09

domain have the still have the ability to do that. As far as motions are

concerned I think we've just tried to make it fair it was a bit of a sort of

trigger thing where at the end of the close of a meeting people were just

hammering in motions trying to fill the agenda so what we're trying to do is to

have a way of controlling that putting it forward. I get your point Becky but

you know we've got a number of got 27 liberal Democrats here they also feel

that there are important issues that they want to raise.

And so I didn't want to be undemocratic even

within my own group and say that they couldn't put that forward.

But as Colin said, we'll work through it.

And we have a constitution committee.

If we feel that the changes that have been made and put in place

are not the correct ones, we can look at it again and to do that.

But I really, really don't think that it's

undemocratic in any way, shape, or form.

Thank you.

Thank you, Lida.

Chair - 4:45:57

I've got five more people that wish to speak.

Cllr Vernon Smith - 4:45:58

Chair - 4:45:59

Cllr Vernon Smith - 4:46:02

So we have a counsellor Graham, please

I would wonder whether this

Intention actually undermines the Constitution itself

Because there's an article one duty to enable counsellors to effectively represent their own citizens

Chair - 4:46:25

Businesses and other organisations and if you're going to reduce motions to only one per group are we undermining article one?

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 4:46:31

Are we undermining, undermining Article 3 with the participation of thousands of constituents

through their county council, by reducing motions to one per party?

I think it's difficult to imagine how the local population, parishes and districts would

Chair - 4:46:52

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 4:46:53

agree to their involvement with the full council via their county councils, their county councillors

I would also wonder whether the Chair's Article 5 civic role to be an Ambassador to the County

as a whole upholds the Constitution itself and conduct Council business with regards

to the rights of all members and the interests of the whole community and encouraging public

involvement in the Council activities.

The Council may say that the existence of scrutiny committees is an adequate compensation

for cutting motions. If that is one of your positions, then I would have expected some

kind of pre -research on whether that assertion actually holds any water. That doesn't appear

have been done. Further, there may well, by cutting what is really a democratic process,

are you cutting, are you invoking human rights problems, in which case there should have

been a legal view on this before it was raised as a motion. So I suggest that this should

go to a public consultation rather than through the council. And one meeting with the council

or one decision with the Constitution is nowhere near enough engagement officially, politically,

or with the public to pass a motion such as this.

Would you give me a moment please?

I would also question and challenge whether it aligns with the purpose of a full council,

because a full council is not just people turning up and having their say.

The full council is supposed to be a conduit through which

everybody, including the public, has their say.

If we're going to reduce the motions to one per party,

I don't see how the purpose of the full council

would be fully committed to there.

Mr. Chairman, co -chair, on a point of order,

I do need to interrupt because actually a lot of this

is the arguments are based on a restriction of one per group.

That is not the case. We've made it very clear that the groups can put in as many motions as they like

All we're doing is setting an order in which they're debated

Now if one group actually with the council wants to debate and they carry on for two hours

Chair - 4:49:40

Then nobody gets another chance if if individual motions take 15 20 minutes

Cllr Stuart Graham - 4:49:51

We've not, and this is the important bit because that's what the Councillor is referring to,

we're not restricting it to one motion per group.

I'm clarifying that.

Did you want to finish?

Well, from your earlier talk, you were talking about primary motions for each group, which

gives the impression of one per group and then recycling through the groups.

If that's not the case, I would still consider that the motion to, that any kind of move

to restrict or amend the motions must not be done simply through a counter hearing and

a decision of the constitution would.

And I would urge the chair to refer this matter to the relevant scrutiny committee under 10 .5 .2

of the constitution.

Thank you.

Sorry to interrupt.

We're finding it is really very difficult to hear.

Those microphones just simply aren't working.

Is there anything we can do about that?

I know it's hot and we're all tired after a long day, but I'm really struggling to hear

the very valid points that are being made.

Just a suggestion from me, because you can't do anything to the microphone right now in

this meeting, but if you use somebody else's microphone, I'll shift the camera position

to you so you can use somebody else's microphone next to you.

I think Vernon's is okay.

So if you use that one when you want to talk.

But that one where you are Mike and Stuart, it's playing up.

So I would use Vernon's and we'll move the camera.

I'm struggling as well.

I've got two hearing aids on, but whether Steven, they can be turned up the volume a

little bit for the next meeting.

We'll discuss that anyway.

Can I have Councillor Camp, please?

I guess my main concern is there's only six full councils a year and that already seems

new to all this obviously.

Seems not many to do this kind of work, bring motions to the full council, the public can

see it happen, see they're being represented.

I was wondering, is there an option to lengthen the time we have motions or maybe even have

more than six meetings, maybe not full councils, where motions can be brought forward and discussed

in this forum. Thank you.

Anybody want to answer that? Not at this point.

Yes, please.

We're going to review this and the Constitution has regular Constitution subcommittees and

we can review anything and we can look at that. I did mention at the time, at the moment,

You cannot suspend the standing order which

limits the time formations to two hours I

Asked if there was any desire to remove that block so that actually

It would be a council vote

do we extend it for another 15 20 minutes half an hour and

the

The mood in the room was not to do that. So I didn't include it we can look at that again

I'm more than happy to do that. We can look at the number of council meetings

but this

The thing is some of us who were here before know that many of the many of the motions

Just they're about

Anything and everything we've got a lot of new councillors

So what I'm trying to do is bring the work of the council to the council meeting

So that you better understand and feel involved in the decisions that we're making and the decisions

Chair - 4:53:47

We're going to be making now you get an opportunity in scrutiny, but for all councillors to understand what's going on

Cllr Stuart Graham - 4:53:52

I thought a council meeting was the best place to do that

We've not restricted it to one as I said

And it is the primary.

That means you can choose which one of the motions you most want to have heard.

Because in the current situation, we could, at the end of this meeting, put four motions

in.

That blocks it.

And there's nothing you can do about it, because that's the current constitution.

That's what I wanted to change, to give each group a chance to do that.

It is not an attack on democracy. I want to be absolutely clear on that. We want to be open

Chair - 4:54:32

Transparent and honest. We've said that enough times

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 4:54:39

This is about opening it up to members of the council who I think from experience

Haven't had that opportunity

previously you've only had a taste of it this time at this meeting and let's give it a go and

so I really think we should go to a vote now and

Democratic Services - 4:54:55

And and actually that's what I propose to do

We do have four other people sorry when you came to me I thought that was it

Yeah, no, I thought you were answering the last point. Okay

Councillor Vernon grey, please

Chair - 4:55:17

Just expanding what Colin said

Is it true that the constitutes something as important as the counter constitution could be changed by simple majority vote?

without any review or anything else

Cllr Piers Camp - 4:55:30

Yes

Mr. Question then is from Councillor Richard Stanley, please

Thank you. I just want to write to be honest

I wouldn't have spoken on this debate, but I've heard so much that I just could not sit quiet and let it go

The starting off of shaming of councillors who have to leave that's just not acceptable

We don't know why those councillors had to leave we should never be saying that we're going to be calling out or shaming councillors

Chair - 4:56:05

Secondly making the case for proportional representation was quite refreshing actually from reform. So I quite enjoyed that one

Cllr Colin Hay - 4:56:07

Thirdly as a backbench councillor who submitted a motion today

And was due to second

another councillor from a different party's motions, I think it's really

important that we are not stifling any councillor regardless of which party

they're in because we all have things that we wish to contribute and things we

want to say and we're not all in the cabinet. The next was the

public right of reply and the current system clearly rations the right of

reply questions. We had members of the public today who had no opportunity to

even ask one question of right of reply. We then had other members of the

who got to ask multiple because that was their slot.

So there is an unfairness within that system.

And I think the suggestion here seems

that we're just trying to address that fairness

by giving as many members of the public

the opportunity to ask their best rights of reply,

the three that they would most like to ask,

and then ultimately if there's time,

we they can ask further.

So actually that's about giving more opportunities

to the public, not less.

And I just wanted to address Councillor Smith's last point

with regards to still not really getting why we thought that the grass cutting motion was inappropriate.

It isn't that the grass cutting is not important, it's really important.

And the first thing I said was that as leader of Shapesborough, I'm always happy to shout about how fantastic Shapesborough is, so I'll do it again now.

And secondly, I fully accepted that there was an issue with the grass cutting, which needed action, and I could confirm that we were taking action.

So that was the issue, was that you were saying that you needed to do a motion for us to take action,

and what we were pointing out to you is we're already doing that and you just needed to

talk to us. So that was the issue with the motion. I'm fully behind you with regards

to getting the grass resolved. So anyway, those were my points. Thank you all.

Can I ask personally name so I can reply? Sorry?

I was personally named so I can reply. Yes. So I'm going to reply to Richard.

I'm told point of explanation, please. Why?

Thank you Richard, I do appreciate that, we will work with you.

When I said we're naming and shaming, we're shaming councillors that will vote today against

democracy, just to clarify that point for you.

Thank you, thank you very much.

Can we move on then to Councillor Haynes please, Sarah?

Chair - 4:58:45

I'm going to turn this on literally to say this happens all the time at Tewkesbury where

Cllr Colin Hay - 4:58:51

Councillor Stanley has stolen my thunder and pretty much said everything because I was

Chair - 4:58:54

just going to stand up and actually thank Reform for highlighting something the Liberal

Democrats have been fighting for for years and that is proportional representation so

thank you for that.

Cllr Vernon Gray - 4:59:04

Just as well there is obviously it's not just one vote today there is the climate change

not the climate change, I'm tired now, there is the Constitution committee of which there

will be members from the reform benches on, so I would just say make sure you go to that

committee every time so you have your say. I'm not saying anyone didn't, I'm just saying

Cllr Colin Hay - 4:59:21

make sure you go, you get a say on that and that's the process.

Chair - 4:59:26

Thank you. Councillor Michael Rees.

Cllr Richard Stanley - 4:59:30

Thank you, Chair. Now, correct me if I'm wrong. This may be my lack of understanding, but

the point of motion is to bring forth ideas to the administration. It is the idea to bring

forth, you know, things that ourselves as other councillors feel is important to bring

up to the administration potentially criticise the administration. Why is it

then that the backbenchers should also be allowed to criticise their own party

at the same point as Reform, the Green Party, the Independent, and Labour?

It doesn't seem to make sense to me at all. Thank you.

Does anybody want to answer that? Yeah I mean I just think you know we could

perhaps we need to go back and perhaps we could look at some further training

on this. I don't think the point of motions is to criticise the

administration. I think the point of motions is to bring forward things which

are important within communities. It may have, but that's not the

point. So perhaps we could look at a wider piece around the purpose of motions

within the council because I think we're sort of getting tied up

here in all sorts of convoluted things that aren't really about the purpose of

of this meeting.

It just brings the members questions early

and the issue about the motions.

It just means that groups no longer can fill out

the agenda of motions by putting in half a dozen

right after this council meeting

because they will be shared out

in alternatively between the groups.

Chair - 5:01:40

Every group will be able to put their primary motion

to debate at that council.

And it really does work.

It's working across the city council.

It just means that you put two or three and you pick your first, you know

Cllr Vernon Smith - 5:01:51

Chair - 5:01:51

You're gonna get it heard and then and then

Somebody else gets those hoods. Everybody gets at least one motion heard and if you've got spare time you can go to your second

But what was happening before was?

Cllr Vernon Smith - 5:02:02

Groups were putting in motions that we were comfortable

months in advance they were

Chair - 5:02:09

So you got the agenda block with like half of those emotions before you even got anywhere near the council being put agenda being published

and therefore if you had a topical motion,

the coming late, you couldn't debate it.

Whereas now, if you've got a topical one,

and you've already got three in, whatever,

you can use that topical and say,

that's the one we want to hear today,

and you can speak to it.

But we've only got two hours,

Cllr Angie Boyes - 5:02:31

and we're going to get rid of the absolute cutoff,

so we're gonna change the constitution

so we can extend the meeting for it.

Cllr Sarah Hands - 5:02:39

But look how we've been doing today.

So it's really just about good management.

It has nothing to do with any anti -democratic proposals.

You'll find it better for the reform group,

because it's quite easy for others

to start chasing and putting emotions well in advance.

And you find your topical motion doesn't even get heard.

We had one in today from Richard,

which has not been heard, because others

will get it in beforehand.

So the dem group didn't get to make their own motion today,

because we got it later.

Chair - 5:03:14

for sharing your experience.

Simple, it works.

Thank you.

Alex, did you have anything to add?

You were the only last person to.

Cllr Vernon Gray - 5:03:23

Thank you, I recognise you abandoned trying

Cllr Michael Rees - 5:03:25

to say my surname, but I don't blame you at this point.

It was just a point of.

Sneaky.

Indeed.

I mean, others have explained about the process,

how emotions work, and sort of churning through that again,

but I just wanted to address,

almost as a bit of a final point here,

some of the language that has been used

which is part of this discussion.

So we've talked about respect and understanding

people's views and there are gonna be things

we are just not going to agree on in certain ways.

But utilising language like attacks on democracy

just because we don't agree with your point of view

came to the smith for it to name you

in case you want to reply to this in a minute.

Chair - 5:04:03

Or there's also, so it's undermining things

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 5:04:07

Chair - 5:04:08

or everybody has like somehow there's some sort of

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 5:04:10

massive super public majority for your point of view.

Shaming people.

This is not how our debates work.

And I say this as a point of fact

for the rest of the reform group,

is that Councillor Smith, I have a feeling,

because he's also on the Constitution Committee,

probably hasn't explained this properly

to the rest of your group about how this has worked.

Because you brought up exactly these points

in the Constitution Committee, Councillor Smith,

and they're explained to you by multiple people

in that group and you still didn't get it,

screamed about something about undermining democracy

and then that was the end of that.

Chair - 5:04:42

I suggest maybe that rather than,

if you're not sure about this,

have conversations with people.

Again, just as we brought up other points.

But I'll just say that maybe we just maybe take a step back

with some of the language that is used about,

we're allowed to disagree in debates.

Cllr Jeremy Hilton - 5:04:56

That's the strength of our democracy.

There's nothing about it that undermines it.

Verdon, you have got that, because you were mentioned,

you have got it right, but I would ask you,

Can you be precise, please?

I'd like to go to the vote.

That's right.

OK.

Yeah, thank you, Alex.

Really appreciate you pointing those facts out to me.

Sorry if I feel a bit strong or I feel a bit too emotional

towards you, but I believe democracy is

what this country is all about.

I think that's what makes Britain great.

I think that's what makes it their ability to move forward,

to be strong, to be the nation we are,

because we listen to the opposition and we debate it.

This is against democracy.

Though you call it a primary,

and you said I came to the Constitution, I did,

but it's all full of liberal Democrats.

I think Steven, Councillor Davis was there as well,

but you're gonna vote through

what you're going to vote through.

What I'm asking you is please,

this is anti -democratic in my opinion,

and reform groups opinion and reform.

I think you're going beyond.

OK, I apologise, Chair.

So could we have a recorded vote, please?

Yes, you'd all like a recorded vote, you're voting there.

A recorded vote, could you raise your hands

at those people that want to...

Thank you, OK.

We're already here for a recorded vote.

Stephen.

I thought you'd summed up before.

I think you did.

Can we just go for the vote now please?

Yeah, okay.

As before, I'll read out your name if you could say for, against or abstain.

Glenn Andrews.

For.

Dean Botterill.

Against.

Ashley Boakert.

For.

Angie Boyes.

For.

Chair - 5:06:56

Tom Bradley's gone.

Cllr Jeremy Hilton - 5:06:59

Chair - 5:06:59

Ian Cameron.

For.

Cllr Alex Hegenbarth - 5:07:11

4. Piers Camp. Against. Lee Chalice. Against. Alistair Chambers. For. Linda Cohen. She's

Chair - 5:07:14

Cllr Alex Hegenbarth - 5:07:16

not here. Daryl Corpse. For. Stephen Davies. For. Ian Dobie. For. Ray Donahue. Against.

Stuart Dubb Ben Evans

Stuart Graham I'm against

Andrew Gravels Vernon Grey

Against Sarah Hand For

Joe Harris For

Mark Harris For

Colin Hay For

Alex Hegenbach For

Jeremy Hilton for for Hodgkinson

Craig Horrocks for

Martin Horwood

Mark Howard

Against

Becky Hoyland

Chris mayo Chris mcfarlane

Don Morris

Jill Mosley for such Patel

John patient for Jason priests

Mike Greece against Steve Robinson or

Sarah Sawyer

Okay, the Vernon Smith

Lisa Spivey Richard Stanley

Chair - 5:08:52

Julian Cook.

Took.

Him as well.

Rebecca Trimnell.

Four.

Cllr Vernon Smith - 5:09:00

Chloe Turner.

Kate Usmar.

Four.

Ian Watson.

Four.

Roger Wyborn.

Four.

Suzanne Williams.

Four.

David Willingham.

Four.

29 -4, 11 against.

Thank you, thank you Rob, that's approved then.

Item 14 then is the calendar of meetings.

Everyone has got their calendar of meetings

for 2026

and can now go on and organise their

holidays for 2026.

Could we please have a vote on that,

everybody,

for and against or whatever,

abstain on calendar of meetings, please.

Those four who agree on it.

I think we have a vote on that.

Chair - 5:09:54

The calendar meetings, okay.

Anybody against?

Anybody abstaining?

One abstention.

Okay, thank you.

I think that's the end of the meeting.

Thank you all.

This has been a very long meeting.

Thank you.

Thank you to everyone.

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County Council - Wednesday 16 July 2025, 10:00am - Gloucestershire County Council Webcasting

County CouncilWednesday, 16th July 2025 at 10:00am

Agenda

Slides

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Speakers

Please let us know your experience of our webcast

Votes

Chair - 0:00:24

Cllr Stephen Davies - 0:01:10

Chair - 0:01:13

Chair - 0:01:18

Cllr David Willingham - 0:01:42

Chair - 0:01:51

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:03:23

Chair - 0:05:26

Public - 0:07:42

Chair - 0:12:48

Cllr Joe Harris - 0:12:59

Chair - 0:15:32

Cllr Stephen Davies - 0:15:38

Chair - 0:16:12

Cllr Vernon Smith - 0:16:17

Chair - 0:16:40

Cllr Craig Horrocks - 0:16:46

Chair - 0:17:54

Chair - 0:19:25

Cllr Sajid Patel - 0:20:04

Chair - 0:23:05

Chair - 0:24:29

Public - 0:25:42

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:26:59

Chair - 0:29:30

Public - 0:29:39

Chair - 0:29:52

Public - 0:29:54

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:29:58

Chair - 0:30:49

Public - 0:30:58

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:31:32

Chair - 0:32:34

Public - 0:32:42

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:33:29

Chair - 0:33:30

Public - 0:33:56

Cllr Martin Horwood - 0:34:38

Chair - 0:36:09

Public - 0:36:35

Public - 0:36:42

Chair - 0:36:42

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:38:21

Chair - 0:40:02

Cllr Stephen Davies - 0:40:07

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:40:23

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:40:27

Chair - 0:40:27

Chair - 0:40:42

Public - 0:40:55

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:41:48

Public - 0:43:05

Chair - 0:43:06

Public - 0:43:17

Cllr Lisa Spivey - 0:43:58

Chair - 0:44:51

Public - 0:44:56

Public - 0:45:39

Chair - 0:45:39

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:45:48

Chair - 0:46:00

Public - 0:46:11

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:46:39

Chair - 0:47:27

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:47:33

Chair - 0:47:34

Cllr Roger Whyborn - 0:47:35

Chair - 0:47:44

County Council
Wednesday, 16th July 2025 at 10:00am